Washing Machine Saga

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Colin Stone

This is the Bosch air condenser.

And the black knob below is a TMV system so that hot water can be used for the wash part on an European cold fill washing machine.

That's an added-on system? Above the normal machine?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Speaking for the vast majority, a washer and dryer onboard is way beyond my payscale.

Can I suggest clothes washed in a tub, filled with soapy water, in the cockpit, and hung in the rigging to dry.

The space currently occupied by the W&D, can be converted to something more useful, like a likker cabinet, unless off course, you already have one of these on the boat, in which case I'm flat out of ideas.

Not sure what you mean… I think in the western world, owning a washer and dryer is the norm, almost everyone has these.

So for those who live aboard, without a house ashore, it’s completely normal to be able to afford and own a washer and dryer and find or make room for them aboard. Maybe one cannot afford a large boat that can accommodate large, full size appliances (I can’t either) but then a combo unit or “mini” version will work. When there’s a will, there is a way (Dutch saying )

While happy hours are important, it worries me that one would rather have more liquor storage than a washing machine…

[Colin Stone]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's an added-on system? Above the normal machine?

Yes. A TMV and 230v NO, on left, and NC, in centre, valves. Our WM finishes the wash part after 14 mins, so we just switch off the valves AC.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Colin Stone

Yes. A TMV and 230v NO, on left, and NC, in centre, valves. Our WM finishes the wash part after 14 mins, so we just switch off the valves AC.

You've got separate washer and dryer. Now I got it. Thanks.

[Dockhead]

Follow up: Yesterday, with a lot of help from several talented friends, I completed the installation of a new washer/dryer. I chose a relatively obscure Swedish unit, called an Elvita CTC4860V for a couple of reasons -- the LG unit which I really preferred was not available; this one is slightly narrower; cheaper.

It required a fair amount of modification to the joinery but thanks to a friend of a friend who is a master furniture-maker, this was done quickly and well. The result is that I can no longer cover the unit with a teak door, and it sticks out of the pilot berth slightly which will make the pilot berth less comfortable, but I rarely use it as a berth so I find that acceptable.

A fun part of the operation was getting the old unit out and the new unit in. I started off using a block and tackle on the boom, which was awkward because of the lateral pull imparted by hauling on the tackle. Then I realized a halyard should be fine, and it was. We easily craned the old one off and the new one on and down the companionway. To get the new unit into the pilot berth cabin -- the most feared part of the operation for me -- we had to remove the door and frame, but this was easily done, and then the new unit went right through.

This was one of those rare big boat jobs which goes more smoothly than you hope. The whole job was done in two sessions of about 3 hours each, without any significant problem.

The new unit has a condensor dryer so no more spewing of hot wet air into the cabin, but on the down side it uses up fresh water for drying. Total water use for a wash-dry cycle with a full load is about 100 liters, which is a lot, but since the capacity is double the old unit (and triple for drying), water usage per quantum of laundry done is about the same, so I'm OK with this. Wash capacity is 8kg and drying is 6kg which is about like what I have on land -- basically full size by Euro standards, and pure luxury on board, meaning I can do whole bunk's worth of linens at one go, instead of tediously piece by piece.

New unit -- like my recent model washing machines on land -- is incredibly smooth compared to old ones. I'm not sure what technology made that possible, but it is fantastic not to have the unit raucously rattling the whole boat when it does its spin cycle. To boot it spins at 1400 RPM so much less drying required.

I'm really happy I did this.

But one question -- why is it that modern washing machines take so long? A full washing and drying cycle is more than 7 (!) hours. There is a "quick wash" function for small loads, but all the normal cycles are incredibly long.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...
But one question -- why is it that modern washing machines take so long? A full washing and drying cycle is more than 7 (!) hours. There is a "quick wash" function for small loads, but all the normal cycles are incredibly long.

We have noticed that the dryers in the Netherlands are different. We used one dryer that was TOO hot and did not have an air dryer function. We would have to run the dryer for five minutes and then have it stop because the clothes were very hot. Flip side, the dryer we used on our last trip took forever to dry. Washing and drying would take 5-7 hours.

Maybe new US dryers are not using as much energy as they used too. Our dryer is around 30 years old. I have had to replace the heating element twice but it keeps on working. Knock on wood. We have had three washing machines since buying the dryer.

[s/v Jedi]

Oh no I am surely every single time I have mentioned a dryer in this forum I warned about not getting one that uses up your fresh water for drying

A heat pump unit. A heat pump unit.

If that falls through, an old fashioned ducted with is actually ducted to the outside. This can be as simple as a flexible duct through a hatch or porthole, but as classy as through a dorade vent turned backwards.

Now you can only hope your watermaker is up to the task of feeding the monster…

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Oh no I am surely every single time I have mentioned a dryer in this forum I warned about not getting one that uses up your fresh water for drying

A heat pump unit. A heat pump unit.

If that falls through, an old fashioned ducted with is actually ducted to the outside. This can be as simple as a flexible duct through a hatch or porthole, but as classy as through a dorade vent turned backwards.

Now you can only hope your watermaker is up to the task of feeding the monster…

There is no other choice in this form factor. I would dearly love to have a heat pump dryer like I have in one of my land homes. Best thing to happen to clothes dryers since sliced bread. Failing that, an old-fashioned ducted one would have been ok. But there are no such choices. 100% of the slim combo washer-dryers have condensor dryers.


But I'm OK with that. I can afford to time my laundry with access to fresh water. I have 1000 liters of tankage, so a full 6kg load of laundry is only 10% of the tank, both washing and drying. About the same amount of water per kg of laundry as my old washer/dryer so it's no big deal -- nothing unfamiliar.


I fantasized about reconfiguring the machines internals to use seawater for the dryer. But I think that will remain a fantasy. Meanwhile if someone comes up with a "slim" format washer/dryer with a heat pump, I'll jump on that in a second.

[s/v Jedi]

Here’s a vented model. Simply look at “RV” models
https://www.campingworld.com/splendi...washers-dryers

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here’s a vented model. Simply look at “RV” models
https://www.campingworld.com/splendi...washers-dryers

Yeah, that's way too deep to fit my space. 57cm vs. a 48cm doorway.


The so-called "slim" European combo washer/dryers are 47.5cm wide and barely scrape through the doorway to my pilot berth where the laundry equipment lives.


Also it has less capacity than the Swedish job I bought and still uses up to 64l of fresh water -- the one I bought uses max 100 liters per wash/dry cycle.


Also it's not available in Europe AFAIK.



That being said -- I would have preferred a vented dryer. Condensor dryer was my last choice out of the three types that exist. But I didn't have any choice.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yeah, that's way too deep to fit my space. 57cm vs. a 48cm doorway.

The so-called "slim" European combo washer/dryers are 47.5cm wide and barely scrape through the doorway to my pilot berth where the laundry equipment lives.

Also it has less capacity than the Swedish job I bought and still uses up to 64l of fresh water -- the one I bought uses max 100 liters per wash/dry cycle.

Also it's not available in Europe AFAIK.

That being said -- I would have preferred a vented dryer. Condensor dryer was my last choice out of the three types that exist. But I didn't have any choice.

It appears I lost sense of EU appliances… never knew of “slim” form factor, I thought the one I linked was the smallest standard size and everything smaller was considered mini or portable.

I once made the mistake of the condensing type (I was new to washing machines aboard in 2002) and took a $1k hit and replaced it, almost never using the dryer function after that
Only bought washers after that. I went through a total of 4 machines, the fourth one bravely continuing. The previous one was my first Splendide and I had to replace it as it rusted out… but still worked!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It appears I lost sense of EU appliances… never knew of “slim” form factor, I thought the one I linked was the smallest standard size and everything smaller was considered mini or portable.

I once made the mistake of the condensing type (I was new to washing machines aboard in 2002) and took a $1k hit and replaced it, almost never using the dryer function after that
Only bought washers after that. I went through a total of 4 machines, the fourth one bravely continuing. The previous one was my first Splendide and I had to replace it as it rusted out… but still worked!

Well, as much as I would love a heat pump dryer, the 100 liters per large load wash/dry of this condensing machine is acceptable to me. It's not more than washing alone was with the previous machine, kg for kg (it's got twice the washing and 3x the drying capacity of the old machine).



I'll swap it out if they ever come up with a heat pump version.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, as much as I would love a heat pump dryer, the 100 liters per large load wash/dry of this condensing machine is acceptable to me. It's not more than washing alone was with the previous machine, kg for kg (it's got twice the washing and 3x the drying capacity of the old machine).

I'll swap it out if they ever come up with a heat pump version.

The machine may wash a load that big, but it will never dry it, not even when using The Force. You need to do 1/3 load for drying. I’m sure you won’t believe it but you will learn my padewan haha

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The machine may wash a load that big, but it will never dry it, not even when using The Force. You need to do 1/3 load for drying. I’m sure you won’t believe it but you will learn my padewan haha

Well, it's rated for 8kg washing and 6kg drying. My previous machine was 4kg and 2kg respectively.

I stuffed it full with an entire set of linens from one double bunk (plus a towel!) and and it dried just fine. "Schranktrocken" as the Germans say; ready to put right into the closet. It's an incredible improvement on the old machine.

Only thing is it took almost all bloody day -- something like 7 hours -- I can't believe how long these cycles are. Recent equipment I have on land also has unbelievably long cycles -- something has changed in the technology I guess.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, it's rated for 8kg washing and 6kg drying. My previous machine was 4kg and 2kg respectively.

I stuffed it full with an entire set of linens from one double bunk (plus a towel!) and and it dried just fine. "Schranktrocken" as the Germans say; ready to put right into the closet. It's an incredible improvement on the old machine.

Only thing is it took almost all bloody day -- something like 7 hours -- I can't believe how long these cycles are. Recent equipment I have on land also has unbelievably long cycles -- something has changed in the technology I guess.

Well, that’s what I mean. With 1/3 load it will be dry in normal time.