Washing machines, graywater, energy

[a64pilot]

The Haier works fine, and I’d postulate that maybe you G force calculations may not be correct.
I suck at math so I’m not even going to try. But subject even 5 lbs of clothes to 1,440 G’s and you come up with a force that I’m certain no spinner could withstand, that would be a centripetal force of about 3 tons?
I believe you get a point of diminishing returns, and for us it seems that 700 RPM is plenty, as I said it spins out more water than our house machine, so much more that the Wife and I notified.
However the machine does use a lot of water, and I exacerbate that I’m sure by always using the highest water level.

See I’m convinced that there is a correlation with water usage in both cleaning and rinsing. The Wife is allergic to any kind of laundry detergent that isn’t hypoallergenic and scent free etc., so a good rinse is important to us.
Her allergy is largely why we do our own laundry, but also unless you stay in the more populous area that tends to cater to tourists, laundry services don’t exist.

But the Haier has served us well for I think three years now, but not always in service as I said we don’t use it in a Marina as they don’t want to see laundry on your lifelines of course.

But finally it’s the 21st Century and we are Retired and saved enough so that we don’t have to use a bucket to wash with or use as a head, so we have a washing machine and a fresh water flush head and a watermaker, Satellite TV and a few other things that make cruising a little less primitive.
We aren’t a luxury yacht by any means, but also don’t see the need to go primitive.
Some, do and that’s fine, neither is more righteous than than the other though.

[Bill O]

Used the basic G force calculations for a centrifuge in this link and thought this was a similar concept of removing water and particles from wash. Not sure where you saw several tonnes of G force.
You can plug them in for yourself to see that the spin drier is developing ~ 13X more force to get the water and soap out.

[a64pilot]

A 5 lb weight’s inertia at one G is multiplied by whatever G force it’s subjected to, subject 5 lbs which is a very small number for a full load of wet clothes by the way to 1,400 G’s and you have a resultant force of 7,000 lbs that the drum must contain, and of course you also have to have the power to accelerate the weight to put that kind of energy into the system.
My guess is that the RPM numbers you were given are incorrect, maybe they are for the motor that drives the system?

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A 5 lb weight’s inertia at one G is multiplied by whatever G force it’s subjected to, subject 5 lbs which is a very small number for a full load of wet clothes by the way to 1,400 G’s and you have a resultant force of 7,000 lbs that the drum must contain, and of course you also have to have the power to accelerate the weight to put that kind of energy into the system.
My guess is that the RPM numbers you were given are incorrect, maybe they are for the motor that drives the system?

I'm not sure about that, the specs say 3200 rpm for the spinner drum.
this means that if you had a large drum wash/spin dryer running at 1200rpm, it would remove about a 3rd less water than the spinner Billo talks about.

From these discussions... I think the best is to wash your stuff in an extra large bucket, then you can do big items too.... then put them in the Billo type spinner and get lots more water out than a normal washing machine.
Advantages...saves water as can be reused from spinner
....uses less power
Disadvantages.....does not look as cool as having a wash/spin dryer

[a64pilot]

First I’m certain water removed isn’t linear. Almost nothing ever is.
Secondly I’m having trouble believing clothes spun at 3200 RPM, the energy contained is enormous.
Third it’s not about looking cool, surely you know that cause there is noting cool looking about a washing machine sitting on top of a head.
It’s about ease of use and reducing labor.

[Bill O]

I'm suspecting both the 700 rpm for the Haier and the spin drier are the max speeds given in the manufact. spec numbers.
One can speculate that the numbers for both may be over inflated, but the real truth is one can take the finished wash out of a large high efficiency washer, put them in the spin drier and get a lots of dirty, soapy water out of it.
After doing the head to head experiments and seeing the dirty soapy water come out of the "clean" clothes, I'm convinced it works better. If you are happy w/the way your wash machine works, that's fine w/me.

As for the ease and reducing labor, I'm really not sure that is happening as one moves away from the KISS principle w/more complex systems. Our systems are kept simple for that reason. Maybe deemed "primitive" by some who need the latest and greatest, we have everything need to make us happy and we are far from camping by any means.


Bill O.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Fuss

I'm not sure about that, the specs say 3200 rpm for the spinner drum.
this means that if you had a large drum wash/spin dryer running at 1200rpm, it would remove about a 3rd less water than the spinner Billo talks about.

From these discussions... I think the best is to wash your stuff in an extra large bucket, then you can do big items too.... then put them in the Billo type spinner and get lots more water out than a normal washing machine.
Advantages...saves water as can be reused from spinner
....uses less power
Disadvantages.....does not look as cool as having a wash/spin dryer

Maybe throw some shades (sunglasses) on the spin drier then it will look sexy and cool

[a64pilot]

If you take clothes out of any washer after the rinse and I include a bucket and get dirty water out of it by any means, either your doing something wrong or you machine isn’t very good.
It’s very likely overloaded.

I looked on line, it seems most household washers claim between about 800 and 1200 RPM, and due to their greater diameter, thats some significant forces.

If your clothes dry in an hour or so when you hang them out, what’s to be gained by having another machine to spin them? The storage space alone required to store it would turn me off from it.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If you take clothes out of any washer after the rinse and I include a bucket and get dirty water out of it by any means, either your doing something wrong or you machine isn’t very good.
It’s very likely overloaded.

I looked on line, it seems most household washers claim between about 800 and 1200 RPM, and due to their greater diameter, thats some significant forces.

If your clothes dry in an hour or so when you hang them out, what’s to be gained by having another machine to spin them? The storage space alone required to store it would turn me off from it.

If we ever met up, I'd be happy to spin your normal load and show you how much it will get out.


And yes those rpm ranges is what we found a few years back and put them in our write up. While you think they are significant, can still get dirty soapy water out of the clothes (bigger drum and higher rpm than yours).


Actually the storage space for the spinner is smaller than your washer (which is smaller than the Splendide). You are correct there isn't much gained to have a washer that doesn't function efficiently and why we haven't purchased one yet. Spin drier works for us.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

. . .
Secondly I’m having trouble believing clothes spun at 3200 RPM, the energy contained is enormous.. . .

I used one of those a couple times a week as as student in Germany, decades ago. It really does spin at 3200 RPM (I think ours was even 3600 RPM), and the clothes come out almost dry -- quite amazing.



I think these devices are hard on the clothes, though.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I used one of those a couple times a week as as student in Germany, decades ago. It really does spin at 3200 RPM (I think ours was even 3600 RPM), and the clothes come out almost dry -- quite amazing.



I think these devices are hard on the clothes, though.

Are they really harder on the clothes? for sure clothes last longer when hand washed, i would not have thought that the spin process stressed them too much.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Are they really harder on the clothes? for sure clothes last longer when hand washed, i would not have thought that the spin process stressed them too much.

Been using the spinner for a few years now and haven't really noticed any extra wear on the clothes.


Bill O.

[a64pilot]

I think clothes wear is real, but I believe it happens in the wash cycle when the clothes rub against each other and the tub, spinning there should be little to no movement against each other.

I’m still trying to figure out what problem exists that a spinner is supposed to solve, if your clothes dry quickly, what does spinning them accomplish?

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think clothes wear is real, but I believe it happens in the wash cycle when the clothes rub against each other and the tub, spinning there should be little to no movement against each other.

I’m still trying to figure out what problem exists that a spinner is supposed to solve, if your clothes dry quickly, what does spinning them accomplish?

Yes, as I thought its the washing that does the damage.

So I think its clear now...wash in a big bucket so the clothes last longer and you save water and reduce wear and tear and save electricity.

Spin with Bill O's spinner to reduce drying time and save water.

Before someone comments... the procedure is as follows...
wash shorts and generally clean items in big bucket, spin dry and drain water back into big bucket.
wash dirtier items in big bucket and then spin dry.

Next year I will buy Bill O's spinner

[Juho]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think clothes wear is real, but I believe it happens in the wash cycle when the clothes rub against each other and the tub, spinning there should be little to no movement against each other.

I’m still trying to figure out what problem exists that a spinner is supposed to solve, if your clothes dry quickly, what does spinning them accomplish?

If we talk about two washing machines, one of which can spin fast, and the other one only slowly, there are some differences. The fast spinning machine can be faster (speeding up takes time, but having less rinsing rounds probably makes it faster anyway). Also consumption of electricity could follow the same logic (more momentarily, but less in the end) (not 100% sure). The fast machine can use less water to get the same results (since particularly the rinsing process is more efficient). The fast machine leaves the laundry dryer (reduces also drying costs). On the negative side, the faster machine could be more expensive and more noisy and jumpy, and a bit heavier too.

The benefits would thus consist of several small benefits. Those benefits may be nice in boats. If you can get a faster machine with the same price, why not take it.