Washing machines, graywater, energy

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am looking at these models in the thread and they barely seem worth it. Am u missing something?

Running an entire wash and long/weak dry cycle to wash a pair of sheets? That's all that fits?

Seems like a huge waste of generator hours. Why not just store up dirty laundry and send it out at the next stop for wash and fold service?

Legitimate question. I want to love these things. My girlfriend wants one. But they seem useless to me. Are they really worth all the effort?

Like most “luxury” items on a boat there are manual options. I have better things to do with my time than wash clothes In a bucket or haul laundry off the boat. No different than at home. Fortunately I have the space for a Haier washer and dryer and wouldn’t be without. I do at least 2 loads every week. When offshore I dry when I’m charging the batteries with the gennie.

Like every decision there are trade offs.

Jeff

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am looking at these models in the thread and they barely seem worth it. Am u missing something?

Running an entire wash and long/weak dry cycle to wash a pair of sheets? That's all that fits?

Seems like a huge waste of generator hours. Why not just store up dirty laundry and send it out at the next stop for wash and fold service?

Legitimate question. I want to love these things. My girlfriend wants one. But they seem useless to me. Are they really worth all the effort?

The Thomson machine as supplied by Jeanneau takes a proper load.

I agree with you that a mini machine would be terribly frustrating. The snag is whether you have the space and money and/or carpentry skills to build the thing in. Jeanneau have done a beautiful job. You just lift the hinged lid of the chart table seat and the top loader and all its controls are accessible. Shut the seat and you would never know that there was a near full sized machine under there. You get to the lint trap by lifting the adjacent sole board. Absolutely brilliant.

[redhead]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am looking at these models in the thread and they barely seem worth it. Am u missing something?

Running an entire wash and long/weak dry cycle to wash a pair of sheets? That's all that fits?

Seems like a huge waste of generator hours. Why not just store up dirty laundry and send it out at the next stop for wash and fold service?

Legitimate question. I want to love these things. My girlfriend wants one. But they seem useless to me. Are they really worth all the effort?

I think it's all relative.

We live aboard in a "non-tropical" area (hah! 8 months of wind and rain). I lugged laundry for the first 2 years and believe me having a washer/dry on board is worth it. If I cruised for a month or two a year? Maybe not so much.

When we cruise we are in places (Pacific Northwest) where the nearest laundromat could be 25 miles away. No place to send it out to!
We run the generator every other day or so when underway to charge batteries, goose up the refrigeration, etc. so we do the laundry then. Makes life easier - very, very worth it!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Generator hours? Mine uses 10a per wash. The idea is that you don't save up a week's worth of washing but instead wash smaller loads more frequently.

Next stop? Wash and fold service? You're having a laugh right? Care to tell me where the wash and fold service is in Restinga (El Hierro) where I am now?

Also when available most of these services will tumble dry your clothes on high heat. That means any technical clothing is ruined. Womens underwear, merino wool items, nice high thread count sheets, swim shorts, sports gears, even socks.

Well, not to be a complete ass, but there are 2 wash and folds on island. Here's one.

Mijúcal Lavandería tintorería
Calle Cruz Alta, 16, 38911 Frontera, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain
+34 922 55 51 14
https://goo.gl/maps/tQYoQfgV88BfDA2w5

Laundry is a universal need like food. It's found in nearly every port.

So it's 10 amps per hour, then hang outside to dry?

Honestly trying to understand how to put in so many small loads all the time. Feels like I'd be doing laundry 4x a week instead of one huge laundry day a month with a taxi.

I think we'll need a larger machine. Seems worth it if it's approaching household/apartment size.

[a64pilot]

A washing machine is very similar to a watermaker. Are they necessary? Do they make life easier and more pleasurable? For most, yes. You don’t hear of many actual cruisers complaining that they shouldn’t have bothered with the watermaker, or washing machine either.
Plus mine can be had for $250 or so US. It’s not as if for some reason you decide you don’t like it that your out all that much money.

I believe she does about three loads at a time, maybe once a week. What is the relevance if its three loads or one? It doesn’t take that long, we are done by lunch, with it dried too.
However as I said earlier you will likely need a watermaker for it to make sense, ours does use a lot of water. We will usually wash when we need to make water anyway, if the machine takes 21 gls of water to wash three loads, that’s what about 45 min of making water? But we will make over 100 gls of water in say three hours, wash all our clothes, vacuum the boat, get a very good charge on our batteries and make lots of ice with the counter top ice maker

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Well, not to be a complete ass, but there are 2 wash and folds on island. Here's one.

Mijúcal Lavandería tintorería
Calle Cruz Alta, 16, 38911 Frontera, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain
+34 922 55 51 14
https://goo.gl/maps/tQYoQfgV88BfDA2w5

Laundry is a universal need like food. It's found in nearly every port.

....

Oh man why bother. If it even still exists, that is a 1 hour car ride (rent a car at €90 for two days which I did recently), a 4.5 hour public transport ride, or an 8 hour walk. All of those are one way. Does that really sound reasonable?

Also you said it's found in nearly every port. There are two ports on this Island, none of them have washing. The facility you linked to is well inland.

BTW, I haven't had a machine long, and will still occasionally take items to laundry where feasible. What I did was to buy enough clothes, bedding etc.. that I wouldn't need to do laundry for a month. When I did eventually find somewhere though it would often be very expensive, or not easy to get to, or involved carrying your washing in 37c heat for a KM or two.

[wingssail]

Bigger boats = more room, so washer, dryer, even dishwasher, could fit. On our boat though, at 43 ft, something, actually a few things, would have to go to create that space.

And it is weight, plumbing, water usage, electrical usage, hanging laundry out to dry, etc. I've got enough to do just keeping the stuff we do have all working.

All of that detracts from the sailing boating experience for us.

Our boat is light, small, and fast. We do not really want to duplicate the land lifestyle. We don't want a water based condo.

Other than washing a few undies when we are out in the boondocks (by hand, in a pail) we can usually wait until we are in a port. Then the locals will do our wash, (wash, dry, fold) for about $5 a week. We have a laundry bag, when it is full we take it in (or arrange a pick up, and the next day or two they bring it back folded and clean.

I actually like that we don't have to do the laundry duty, and I don't have to keep up with the engineering.

And then there is the effect it would have on the sailing ability of the boat.

Some boats it wouldn't make much difference. For us it would. Yesterday we got a first place prize for a three day regatta. That is primary for us.

So, nope, no laundry room on Wings.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Oh man why bother. If it even still exists, that is a 1 hour car ride (rent a car at €90 for two days which I did recently), a 4.5 hour public transport ride, or an 8 hour walk. All of those are one way. Does that really sound reasonable?

Also you said it's found in nearly every port. There are two ports on this Island, none of them have washing. The facility you linked to is well inland.

BTW, I haven't had a machine long, and will still occasionally take items to laundry where feasible. What I did was to buy enough clothes, bedding etc.. that I wouldn't need to do laundry for a month. When I did eventually find somewhere though it would often be very expensive, or not easy to get to, or involved carrying your washing in 37c heat for a KM or two.

Exactly what I'm thinking. That's a good idea. Have enough so you can store up the dirty clothes for a month or two doing the big batch in a port that does have wash and fold (most mainland ones do) and in a pinch, use the low volume machine to do some daily wear type stuff.

Truthfully, I don't generate much laundry anyway.

I have "urban ashore clothes" I almost never wear unless in a sophisticated port,
"Walmart ashore clothes" wear more often,
"Around the house/boat clothes" I wear until unbearably nasty,
"Work clothes" which are filthy, greasy, stained things,
"Rags" which are old, worn out clothes from any of the above.

So I tend to just wear "around the house" and "work clothes" mostly which last a very long time without washing.

So maybe the volume isn't as bad as I'm thinking. Just thinking about sheets makes it seem small.

[CarlF]

To go back to the dishwasher for a moment, we have a single drawer Fisher & Paykel dishwasher and love it. Uses far less water (and hot water) than most people hand washing.

Throughout the day dishes can be just wiped off and put in the dishwasher instead of filling the sink. And the dishes get much hotter than you can stand hand washing.

Runs off the inverter just fine and is essentially silent. We typically run it as we go to bed.

The grey water issue is also no worse and probably better than pulling the stopper on a sink of sudsy water

[Pizzazz]

A washing machine makes sense for everyone, this is why we have them in our houses. Same with the watermaker. By the way, the idea is to do laundry often before the dirt sets in. Otherwise, it smells more and it is harder to wash out. Can you do without? Absolutely, few houses had automatic washing machines in the 1940s. The size of the boat does not matter. If you keep more clothes to do laundry once a month you still need the space to store them. So it is a wash . Plus, you can use the washing machine to store your dirty clothes, thus not much wasted space.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

A washing machine makes sense for everyone, this is why we have them in our houses. Same with the watermaker. By the way, the idea is to do laundry often before the dirt sets in. Otherwise, it smells more and it is harder to wash out. Can you do without? Absolutely, few houses had automatic washing machines in the 1940s. The size of the boat does not matter. If you keep more clothes to do laundry once a month you still need the space to store them. So it is a wash . Plus, you can use the washing machine to store your dirty clothes, thus not much wasted space.

Pardon me for being direct but this is faulty logic.

There are a lot of things that houses have that are not found on most boats. In the first place an average house in the United States is about 2500 square feet. Even allowing for the compact efficiency of a boat's living space and equipment sizes compared to a house, that far exceeds the 250sq feet in a typical 40ft sailboat. Obviously we can't have every convenience in our boats that we have in our houses.
Choosing to install a washer, dryer, dishwasher will result in compromises elsewhere in the boat. If one wishes to make that choice, it's OK with me.

But the idea that the washer/dryer space is offset by savings in clothes storage space is weird. When all the clothes are clean and put into the lockers you still have the washer dryer taking up space. And when all the clothes are dirty and the lockers are empty, they still take up space. So, actually, the clothes locker space and washer dryer space both exist at all times.

And none of this addresses the added maintenance issues of the electrical, plumbing, water usage, grey water disposal of having a washing machine on board.

And then there is the philosophical question: "Do we want a boat or a house on the water?"

I reside on my boat but I don't expect it to be exactly like a house. I want it to look, feel, and act like a boat.

That is why I bought a boat. I use my boat for boating quite a lot. I really don't want a lot of heavy stuff occupying space I need for sailing equipment, sails, spares etc, and compromising the boat's usefulness as a boat.

Of course other people (many other people) have a different view of this. That's fine. But they should recognize that "washing machines [don't] make sense for everyone". It might make a lot of sense if you have quite a big boat, or if your boating is all about living aboard, but if sailing is your passion, then it does not make as much sense.

[daletournier]

We are all different, what a surprise my boat is my home, the sails enable me to move my home, in no way am I a racer, bring on teleportation I say!!

I like my comforts and conveniences as I travel around the world, life for me is better with such things like watermakers and washing machines. I dont have a washing machine at the moment, it broke, when I get to Mexico I'm fitting a little daewoo, I dont need more, it's very funky and will fit nicely up the front where the crazy big one used to be. I live in warm climates generally dont wear much in the way of clothing , therefore a little one is fine. Once of the grid laundromats are rare.

[redhead]

After reading all the above one saying comes to mind:

If you don't want one, don't buy one.
If you do, do.

Just goes to show you how many definitions of cruising there are.
It's a big tent, room for all.

[john61ct]

Yes saying machinery is "required" to clean clothes.

Like saying you can't imagine living without a TV or a microwave or a private car.

Very limited viewpoint. . .

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes saying machinery is "required" to clean clothes.

Like saying you can't imagine living without a TV or a microwave or a private car.

Very limited viewpoint. . .

A boat isnt required, but we have them, so where exactly do you draw that line John?