water makers

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

You need a low frequency inverter that can take 4x the run current. For example, my 2kw AC load of my water maker runs a 3kw low frequency inverter that has a peak short duration of 9kw. It works perfectly. Speak to the inverter tech guys and ask them which model will run your motor

What he said.


By all means, talk to the seller of the inverter.



Most inverters can support a short time overload for electric motor starting, but how much and for how long is usually known only to the maker.


Rule of thumb is starting current is around 400% of the rated run current, but it can vary.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What he said.


By all means, talk to the seller of the inverter.



Most inverters can support a short time overload for electric motor starting, but how much and for how long is usually known only to the maker.


Rule of thumb is starting current is around 400% of the rated run current, but it can vary.

High frequency inverter don't work well long term with inductive loads. Low frequency inverters use a big lump of copper windings and are more resilient to an inductive load.
This distinction is important for long term reliability

[BlueH2Obound]

You might also take a look at this thread here on CF:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/which-watermaker-284995.html#post3886824

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

High frequency inverter don't work well long term with inductive loads. Low frequency inverters use a big lump of copper windings and are more resilient to an inductive load.
This distinction is important for long term reliability

Yeah. Victron.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yeah. Victron.

There are lots of alternatives to Victron and a lot cheaper

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Lepke

But I would have spent less money and time if I bought a system from CruiseRO.
https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/products/

I bought a CruiseRO system. I would have spent less money and saved a lot of time on install if I purchased a SeaWaterPro. Very similar system that is better configured for easy installation. The auto-flush and TDS diversion accessories on the CruiseRO are a box of parts and require a lot of scratch-wiring vs SWP is more modular and plug/play.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I bought a CruiseRO system. I would have spent less money and saved a lot of time on install if I purchased a SeaWater Pro.

Since I have watched the changes in the CruiseRO system over the past 10+ years and having instead gotten a SWP unit I will tell you what I feel the difference really is.

CruiseRO over the years has increased the quality of he parts used in the system. It isn't really to provide a better system as much as itis to reduce warranty claims. It basically is to pre-charge the buyer for any possible warranty replacements by using components higher quality than most users should need.

The only real difference between all AC power 20-40gph systems is the boost pump and HP pump material.

The other main difference is that I have never read Mike at SWP bad mouth someone else's system. But on the other hand Rich at CruiseRO will do it all the time and takes a "my way is the only way"

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Since I have watched the changes in the CruiseRO system over the past 10+ years and having instead gotten a SWP unit I will tell you what I feel the difference really is.

CruiseRO over the years has increased the quality of he parts used in the system. It isn't really to provide a better system as much as itis to reduce warranty claims. It basically is to pre-charge the buyer for any possible warranty replacements by using components higher quality than most users should need.

The only real difference between all AC power 20-40gph systems is the boost pump and HP pump material.

The other main difference is that I have never read Mike at SWP bad mouth someone else's system. But on the other hand Rich at CruiseRO will do it all the time and takes a "my way is the only way"

I had great support from Charlie at CRO. He's a prince of a guy. Rich was a different story altogether and why I give them a low score for customer service. As far as reducing warranty claims, Rich gave me a hard time on replacing a timer that was missing altogether so I cannot imagine a true warranty failure claim would go well. BTW - Charlie interceded and made good on replacement of the timer, but it got pretty nasty with Rich until then.

As far as the system components, the boost pump on SWP is pretty puny. And I see the stainless steel HP pump that is standard on CRO is an upgrade on SWP. The auto-flush on CRO is crazy complicated and bulky because they decided to make it so it turns the house potable water pump on/off so you don't have to leave your system pressurized. Wiring it is a PITA and the control box is the size of a shoe box. And it's an expensive upgrade for CRO system which I ultimately abandoned and went with a simple garden timer similar to what SWP uses.

I spent close to $7k on a 30 GPH system from CRO including options (auto-flush and TDS based diversion). The system install is easy if it's on a well-lit bench in your garage but impossibly difficult in confined space normally found in a boat. A friend installed the a comparable SWP system 6-months prior to me for $4500. That's a big difference in price and his install went smoothly. He has had to replace the boost pump.

One guys experience. All I can say is if I had it to do over, I'd go SWP.

[CrispyCringle]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

One guys experience. All I can say is if I had it to do over, I'd go SWP.

Why is that? Because of price? It seemed like besides the warranty issue and the timer design, you were saying the CRO unit was better.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

Why is that? Because of price? It seemed like besides the warranty issue and the timer design, you were saying the CRO unit was better.

Install was an unnecessary PITA with CRO. Design of accessories was overly complicated and I ended up not using them as a result. Decidedly mixed experience with customer support (Charlie was great, Rich was awful).

SWP has some shortcomings that I would consider surmountable. The install wiring on the CRO was ridiculous, mostly because of complexity of auto-flush and TDS diversion. But even the pump required wiring for 120VAC which was a PITA as all wire colors are yellow with opaque tags that would be easy to read on a well lit bench, not so much in a typical location of a modest sized boat. Honestly, I think CRO has lost their way from their original "by cruisers for cruisers" mantra.

The install manual for CRO is over 110 pages long. The SWP is something like 17 pages.

As mentioned, I have never gotten decent water out of my CRO system - sometimes it's close to 300 ppm, but usually around 400 ppm which Rich proclaimed as "perfect!". I'm guessing there's an issue with one of the seals on the membrane. I gave up getting help from CRO when they gave me such a hard time with delivering the timer - now that I'm in southern Mexico, I'm on my own and will figure it out.

As I said. One persons opinion. But it's recent. I do not recommend CRO.

[CrispyCringle]

Thats interesting. I do appreciate your comments. I just installed a CRO 40 gph unit. I have to say your review is the first negative Ive read for CRO customer service. But I like hearing different opinions. I did not opt for auto-flush, I did get the in-line TDS meter. Their auto-flush does seem overly complex. Good idea on just using a garden system. I may look into that later. The pump wiring seemed pretty standard for wiring up a AC motor. Didnt have a problem w that. Not sure what you mean by TDS diversion. The TDS meter mounted on the panel was not a problem for me. I found the instructions to be pretty good. Only had a question on two items that were answered same day via email from Rich. But the manual is long. I think thats mostly because it covers all the models and all the optional equipment, as well as operating checklists for the various functions which include pretty good explanations for each critical step. I would like the manual more specific for just my model. As well as a condensed operator checklist. The hardest part I had was just figuring out where to mount everything. After that it was pretty easy. So far so good.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

As far as the system components, the boost pump on SWP is pretty puny.

They have gone through a few different pumps. Three months ago I got one of the newer 2 stage pumps (never installed it).

But the "puny" single stage that came before the 2 stage pump I once ran for 12 hours with the inlet shut and no water going through it. I had to take it apart (4 screws) and sand off a little plastic bump off the motor rotor. Ran it a full season after with no problem.

My point here is that a component that meets its' use is 100% acceptable and one that exceeds the needs isn't necessarily better, just more expensive.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

Thats interesting. I do appreciate your comments. I just installed a CRO 40 gph unit. I have to say your review is the first negative Ive read for CRO customer service. But I like hearing different opinions. I did not opt for auto-flush, I did get the in-line TDS meter. Their auto-flush does seem overly complex. Good idea on just using a garden system. I may look into that later. The pump wiring seemed pretty standard for wiring up a AC motor. Didnt have a problem w that. Not sure what you mean by TDS diversion. The TDS meter mounted on the panel was not a problem for me. I found the instructions to be pretty good. Only had a question on two items that were answered same day via email from Rich. But the manual is long. I think thats mostly because it covers all the models and all the optional equipment, as well as operating checklists for the various functions which include pretty good explanations for each critical step. I would like the manual more specific for just my model. As well as a condensed operator checklist. The hardest part I had was just figuring out where to mount everything. After that it was pretty easy. So far so good.

Here are the CRO optional components

https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.co...aker-upgrades/

• Automatic Product Water High TDS Divert ($395) and
• Unattended Automatic Fresh Water Flushing($695)

In my opinion, these really should have pre-made wiring harnesses and plugs. It's not rocket science, but they all feed off the two switches and some sort of terminal strip is needed so each install is re-inventing the wheel. It's pretty time consuming for the average schmoe.

I went with a simple garden timer and just ate the $695 I spent on the gizmo from CRO - it was difficult to program and had other issues related to CRO sending 12VDC solenoid instead of 120VAC which was difficult to diagnose. Yes, the garden timer is battery operated vs hard-wired, but it's dead simple and works just fine - plus it's really simple to program, and a single button-press activates it when you use the watermaker. I've used these in my garden for over 10-years and they are very reliable. Batteries need changing every year or so. $40 plus a few bucks more for adapters.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-1-...2056/100126132

Rich was a jerk to me. I accepted the watermaker in San Diego knowing the timer for the auto-flush was missing, but he promised I could pick-up in La Paz. I told him I hadn't planned on La Paz but he said Mazatlan was no problem. I ended up going to La Paz but he changed his plans and wasn't there. When I asked him to send it to Mazatlan, he said it would take 2-months and if I wanted to return the auto-flush system that didn't work, I could only do so if it was uninstalled in original packaging in a snarky voice that was more or less a middle-finger response. Charlie stepped-in and had the timer sent to Mazatlan in 4-days. Good guy. Rich.....not so much. He did remind me that he had tons of great reviews. So here you go - one 1-star review. With the entire story.

So my system makes sub-grade water that Rich tells me is "Perfect!!" Given he was a jerk about replacing a missing part, and I'm now 2000 nms south of San Diego, I figure I'll just move on without his help. It will cost me money I shouldn't have to spend, but the tradeoff is brain cells. Clearly, Rich feels their product is the best in the universe and doesn't have to warranty anything. My sense is you are seeing a company in transition (Rich has all sorts of other business ventures in La Paz - CRO is no a side-business I suppose)

Other folks can make up their own mind. My only words of wisdom are strongly consider SeaWaterPro. Very similar, easier install, better customer support. And oh-by-the-way, it's $2000 cheaper.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

So my system makes sub-grade water that Rich tells me is "Perfect!!" Given he was a jerk about replacing a missing part, and I'm now 2000 nms south of San Diego, I figure I'll just move on without his help. It will cost me money I shouldn't have to spend, but the tradeoff is brain cells. Clearly, Rich feels their product is the best in the universe and doesn't have to warranty anything. My sense is you are seeing a company in transition (Rich has all sorts of other business ventures in La Paz - CRO is no a side-business I suppose)

Other folks can make up their own mind. My only words of wisdom are strongly consider SeaWaterPro. Very similar, easier install, better customer support. And oh-by-the-way, it's $2000 cheaper.

Peter, you weren't even asking him to REPLACE a part, you were asking him to PROVIDE a part that, through their own mistake, they neglected to provide in the FIRST place. You were only asking him to provide what they should have provided initially, and what you had already paid for!

On CRO supplying the incorrect 12vdc solenoid instead of the 120vac solenoid that you ordered, and that was in keeping with the entire system you had purchased, that smacks of just sloppy warehousing/parts inventory on the part of CRO. You, the customer, shouldn't have had to pull your hair out back checking their order fulfillment and un- . . . . snarling their screw-ups. You shouldn't have had to waste your time and $$ to troubleshoot their screw ups.

If I had had similar issues with SWP, I fully believe that Mike would have immediately owned his mistake, and bent over backward to make it right! JMHO, I can't guarantee he would have responded in that manner, but then again, I never had the issues you've experience with CRO.

On water quality, maybe my seawaterpro TDS meter, as well as the TWO hand held TDS meters, ALL of different brands, are ALL broken, and broken to the same degree, since they agree within 1 or two ppm of each other, but our water has NEVER been above 124 ppm, over the last 8,000 plus gallons produced in the last two plus years.

I honestly think your issue with the extremely high TDS water output is due to either a damaged, or improperly installed O-ring in your membrane housings, or damaged membrane housing, which is allowing brine water to contaminate the fresh water output. Since the membrane housings are pre-assembled by CRO, they should own the problem. In their place, I would send two brand new membrane housings with installed membranes. In their place as well, I would pay for you to ship back your membranes and housings to better investigate what actually happened, so that I could put into place procedures/inspections to ensure that future customers don't have to go though what you've had to go through, rather than to just state "TDS of 400 is totally fine!" It isn't, or at least, if TDS of 400 is acceptable to CRO, you've got to wonder what SeaWaterPro is doing differently when it consistently and provably produces water with a TDS of 90 to 124 . . . . for less installation hassle, and for considerably less $$$ and with better customer service . . . . .

Our gph, 120vac SeaWaterPro water maker, with two extra membranes (we are cruising remotely, and membranes are a potential show stopper, so we elected to purchase spares, knowing that they potentially have a shelf life, but there you have it.) Anyway,our entire system, with the spare membranes cost us $4,724 usd all in.

Bottom line, you are almost 6 months and $7,000 in, and have a Cruise RO water maker that produces water that meets (barely) the United States Guideline for a TDS of 500 ppm, a TDS that will sustain life. . . . . . For me, that is just unacceptable.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Peter, you weren't even asking him to REPLACE a part, you were asking him to PROVIDE a part that, through their own mistake, they neglected to provide in the FIRST place. You were only asking him to provide what they should have provided initially, and what you had already paid for!

On CRO supplying the incorrect 12vdc solenoid instead of the 120vac solenoid that you ordered, and that was in keeping with the entire system you had purchased, that smacks of just sloppy warehousing/parts inventory on the part of CRO. You, the customer, shouldn't have had to pull your hair out back checking their order fulfillment and un- . . . . snarling their screw-ups. You shouldn't have had to waste your time and $$ to troubleshoot their screw ups.

If I had had similar issues with SWP, I fully believe that Mike would have immediately owned his mistake, and bent over backward to make it right! JMHO, I can't guarantee he would have responded in that manner, but then again, I never had the issues you've experience with CRO.

On water quality, maybe my seawaterpro TDS meter, as well as the TWO hand held TDS meters, ALL of different brands, are ALL broken, and broken to the same degree, since they agree within 1 or two ppm of each other, but our water has NEVER been above 124 ppm, over the last 8,000 plus gallons produced in the last two plus years.

I honestly think your issue with the extremely high TDS water output is due to either a damaged, or improperly installed O-ring in your membrane housings, or damaged membrane housing, which is allowing brine water to contaminate the fresh water output. Since the membrane housings are pre-assembled by CRO, they should own the problem. In their place, I would send two brand new membrane housings with installed membranes. In their place as well, I would pay for you to ship back your membranes and housings to better investigate what actually happened, so that I could put into place procedures/inspections to ensure that future customers don't have to go though what you've had to go through, rather than to just state "TDS of 400 is totally fine!" It isn't, or at least, if TDS of 400 is acceptable to CRO, you've got to wonder what SeaWaterPro is doing differently when it consistently and provably produces water with a TDS of 90 to 124 . . . . for less installation hassle, and for considerably less $$$ and with better customer service . . . . .

Our gph, 120vac SeaWaterPro water maker, with two extra membranes (we are cruising remotely, and membranes are a potential show stopper, so we elected to purchase spares, knowing that they potentially have a shelf life, but there you have it.) Anyway,our entire system, with the spare membranes cost us $4,724 usd all in.

Bottom line, you are almost 6 months and $7,000 in, and have a Cruise RO water maker that produces water that meets (barely) the United States Guideline for a TDS of 500 ppm, a TDS that will sustain life. . . . . . For me, that is just unacceptable.

Mistakes happen - it's how you deal with them that makes a difference. In my opinion, Rich at CRO was great until the check cleared. I don't know how or why, but I guess I pissed him off along the way. Clearly he feels their reputation is strong enough to endure a pissed off customer.

The CRO base unit is fine. Had I not gone with the accessories, install would have been okay (could still be improved). They have now added a German built competitor to Spectra to their lineup (Schenker is the name I think) and Rich is selling boats in La Paz and other marine stuff. My guess is he's bored with the old watermaker lineup and easily agitated. Or maybe I caught him on a bad month. All I can tell you is CruiseRO is on my list of never-again vendors.