We have propane heaters. Why no gasoline/petrol heaters?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by darrelweb

There is a reason(s) about 100% of the commercial fisherman and most sailors use diesel fuel for their stoves heating and cooking. Even though a lot of these guys have a second fuel tank for #1 diesel fuel (higher heat content, btu's).

Gas used outside of a gas engine is inherently unsafe and you wonder why there is no gas heaters made.....its not safe....and l also would not dock next to a boat heating with gas.

Most folks store their outboard gas on deck. Think of the reasons why.....

My two cents worth.....OK...
Darrel

The reason commercial fishermen use diesel heaters is the same reason I want to use gasoline. It’s the fuel they have the most of already on board.

[pembquist]

There are gasoline heaters https://janitrol.aero/aircraft-heaters/ I personally loathe gasoline, it only takes a second or two to be really badly, (life altering,) burned.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by pembquist

There are gasoline heaters https://janitrol.aero/aircraft-heaters/ I personally loathe gasoline, it only takes a second or two to be really badly, (life altering,) burned.

Wow. I thought the marine markup was high. LOL.

Thanks for the link. That proves their existence beyond the small webasto and Espar ones.

For gasoline naysayers, what are my other options?

The only thing aside from a dedicated gasoline heater is to run a set of electric heaters off the gasoline powered genset. Was trying to get more efficiency than this as well as be a better neighbor.

Solid fuel like a woodstove would be ok but the weight is no good either.

[Richv]

Originally Posted by Chotu

We have propane heaters, hot water heaters, stoves and ovens.

So why not gasoline heaters?

Truly, using a metal fuel line and proper ventilation of the compartment would make it safe. Why don’t we have gasoline fuel heaters that pressurize and inject a little spray of gasoline the same way the modern diesel heaters do?

With a fuel shutdown based on lack of flame like propane appliances do.

Back in the 1970's, I worked on aircraft electronics. Many of the smaller aircraft which came in used gasoline-fired heaters. These heaters required a lot of maintenance to operate safely; the FAA had very strict schedules. Many people who owned gasoline heaters had them pulled, and installed heavy-duty alternators and electric heat; I was told the insurance was much cheaper.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by blueprint_33

Some manufacturers offer their diesel models modified for Kero too but its is a small market, eg Wallas from Finland.

Wallas kerosene heaters are not modified diesel heaters. The burners are very different and they are a separate product line.

Having said that you can burn kerosene is a Wallas diesel heater - not quite as many btu but it will burn cleaner. Problem with kerosene is it eventually turns to wax if left in a tank for a season. Why the Brits call it paraffin.

I do not believe a gasoline heater in a boat will pass a survey. Therefore no insurance. Surveyors are not exited about propane forced air heaters in boats either in many cases. Good for RVs though.

Diesel is safe and packs a lot of btu in a gallon, that is why it is the best choice.

[AndyEss]

I suspect the differences in safety between gasoline and propane are mostly due to the fact that gasoline is a liquid at room temperature (and pressure) while propane is a gas at atmospheric pressure. Gasoline volatilizes easily and forms a heavier than air vapor, similar to the heavier than air vapor of propane.
Gasoline flow, being initially in liquid form, is totally controlled by gravity, while gas phase propane is readily effected by air currents.
US boat standards include all propane storage to be in a separate compartment vented to the outdoors, not into the boat hull. I don’t believe gasoline storage tanks (due to weight and size restrictions) have this same requirement.
I use propane on my boat for cooking and hot water. I have no need for heating in the Sea of Cortez, air conditioning would be far more useful if I had a magic wireless extension cord.
My three 10 lb propane tanks are in a deck box on my fore deck. I don’t connect more than one tank at a time. There is a control solenoid right in the deck box, which if working correctly (and switched on/off correctly) isolates the propane to the box. A leak in the box certainly would spread onto the fire deck at a minimum, but ingress into the hull should be limited, as the nearest hatch or dorade vent is at least 10 to 20 inches higher than the propane storage deck box vents. I guess some propane might enter the hause pipes going into my chain locker, which is essentially open to the hull through louvered doors. Any breeze would dissipate at least some of the propane. Propane collecting on the deck would flow out through the scuppers.
A gasoline leak is liquid - it wants to flow directly down through any opening or leak and will try to find the lowest point to settle in. Breezes or air flow have next to no effect on liquid phase flow.
If my interior propane gas lines leak, I am limited to a maximum of 10 lbs of propane gas in my hull (about 216,000 BTU in energy). I suspect at least a portion of the gas phase leaking propane will waft its way out through open hatches and portlights.
In contrast, 100% of leaking liquid phase gasoline will remain within the hull, where it will volatilize faster or slower depending on air temperatures. If the leak is large enough, some of the liquid gasoline will probably be pumped out of the bilges into the water around your boat. That, in itself, might increase the probability of ignition.
I understand you not wanting to carry yet another fuel on your cat. I don’t like carrying gasoline on my boat for my dinghy outboard.
Gasoline heating, like gasoline cooking seems more dangerous than carrying some diesel (or propane) imo.

[donahue62]

Originally Posted by darrelweb

There is a reason(s) about 100% of the commercial fisherman and most sailors use diesel fuel for their stoves heating and cooking. Even though a lot of these guys have a second fuel tank for #1 diesel fuel (higher heat content, btu's).

Gas used outside of a gas engine is inherently unsafe and you wonder why there is no gas heaters made.....its not safe....and l also would not dock next to a boat heating with gas.

Most folks store their outboard gas on deck. Think of the reasons why.....

My two cents worth.....OK...
Darrel

I’m with Darrel, gas below would scare me to death. Would rather get a bigger coat or stay out of cold areas.

[Chotu]

There is already 150 gallons of gasoline below.

Why are people so petrified of these things ?

Do you just imagine some jerry cans half leaking sitting below? Or do you understand that the gasoline tanks (50 gallons each) are built by Moller, attached to deck fills and vents, have fuel gauges, pickups out of the top of the tank and use uninterrupted, heavy duty marine fuel lines to an outdoor area (like a propane locker) that has all the plumbing in it?

Don’t just regurgitate what you read on this forum. Think.

Do you really think a boat of that caliber has just some random crap tank a step up from a jerry can below decks with gasoline done wrong?


One of the recent posts is comparing gasoline and propane is if they are just spraying out all over the place. Who is going to have a system like that?

Gasoline is inside metal plumbing in the case of supplying a heater. With no joints. A single, uninterrupted piece of tubing from the propane locker area to the heater. Exactly like you do with propane.

[Ramona]

Many years ago I used to fly in Grumman Trackers that had heaters that burnt avgas. Always exciting when first flashed up but they worked well. The maintainers were told as soon as we landed that the heater was used and they were serviced. I would prefer to just add another jumper!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by ttex

Are you telling me that propaneisbetterthangas.com would lie to me? On the internet of all places?

Propane is gas??? Is not liquid or solid. Sop how can gas be better than gas?

[bailsout]

My 39 Cadillac had a Sunwind? gas heater under the passenger side of dash. You can still find them on eBay.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by bailsout

My 39 Cadillac had a Sunwind? gas heater under the passenger side of dash. You can still find them on eBay.

Wow!!! Would you look at that!

All the googling in the world for gasoline heaters returns just a couple. Then the knowledge here in the forum returns the South Wind Gasoline Heater.

https://www.ebay.com/i/143499076883?...CABEgJw5_D_BwE


Pretty amazing knowledge depth here. Thank you. Something to look at. Looks a lot like a large modern unit actually. Probably less electronic or safety measures but still.

[Chotu]

Not bad!!!

https://www.aviationpros.com/engines...aircraft-cabin


These are up to aircraft standards, made of stainless steel and seem like they’ll do the trick!

And 50,000 BTUs from a single unit is probably enough to hear the whole boat with ease in the Arctic! Lol

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Chotu

There is already 150 gallons of gasoline below.

Why are people so petrified of these things ?

Do you just imagine some jerry cans half leaking sitting below? Or do you understand that the gasoline tanks (50 gallons each) are built by Moller, attached to deck fills and vents, have fuel gauges, pickups out of the top of the tank and use uninterrupted, heavy duty marine fuel lines to an outdoor area (like a propane locker) that has all the plumbing in it?

Don’t just regurgitate what you read on this forum. Think.

Do you really think a boat of that caliber has just some random crap tank a step up from a jerry can below decks with gasoline done wrong?


One of the recent posts is comparing gasoline and propane is if they are just spraying out all over the place. Who is going to have a system like that?

Gasoline is inside metal plumbing in the case of supplying a heater. With no joints. A single, uninterrupted piece of tubing from the propane locker area to the heater. Exactly like you do with propane.

Sounds like you've made up your mind that risk of gasoline is manageable. Judgment call. Several posts have given physical properties of gasoline that indicates it is much more volatile than propane. Gasoline is used as a pressurized liquid vs a propane which is a fairly low pressure gas. 5 minutes of leaking gasoline will spill a lot more potential energy into your hull than 5 minutes of leaking propane. And gasoline would be much more likely to ignite. Just because these facts are on the internet doesn't make them wrong, just makes them inconvenient for someone who really wants a gasoline heater.

Pic is a friend's boat 1-1/2 years ago. He's also a pilot and has been a boater for 30 years.

Good luck. Please don't dock next to me.

Peter

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Sounds like you've made up your mind that risk of gasoline is manageable. Judgment call. Several posts have given physical properties of gasoline that indicates it is much more volatile than propane. Gasoline is used as a pressurized liquid vs a propane which is a fairly low pressure gas. 5 minutes of leaking gasoline will spill a lot more potential energy into your hull than 5 minutes of leaking propane. And gasoline would be much more likely to ignite. Just because these facts are on the internet doesn't make them wrong, just makes them inconvenient for someone who really wants a gasoline heater.

Pic is a friend's boat 1-1/2 years ago. He's also a pilot and has been a boater for 30 years.

Good luck. Please don't dock next to me.

Peter
Attachment 218824

I’ll raft up with you. Lol
My installation has been just fine for 6 years now. And guess what?? I have insurance.

It’s all fear mongering here by people who don’t actually understand gasoline installations on boats.

Tell me how to do a correct installation and maybe I’ll listen to all the fear hype.

I’m sure none of the nervous nellies can begin to describe a proper below deck gasoline installation.

Instead confusing it with jerry cans, ignition sources in places with gasoline, engine rooms and engine room blowers, gasoline inboards, etc.

No clue about an actual installation. Or my installation, which is outboard powered.

And literally none of the nervous nellies are on topic anyway. The topic was gasoline heaters. We found em. They are used in aircraft and are of higher quality than marine heaters.

Sorry to see your friend’s boat up in flames. Electric fire like most boat fires?