Where do you dump?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

1. Medications both directly and through excretion have an impact on the environment. From my reading, birth control chemicals on frogs are considered a leading indicator.

2. Detergents (vice soap) are rough on the environment also. So, as a digression, is me wearing clothes that haven't been washed. *grin*

3. People, because you can't fix stupid, pour all kinds of things down the drain including paint, thinner, acetone, and any manner of other chemicals.

Three different categories of things. I'm sure there are more bad things people pour down drains, including motor oil, coolant, all manner of solvents, ....

Of all of this stuff, by far the most harmful, I believe, is what gets discharged in gray water. How many of you who freak out about 400 grams of human waste discharged into a billion liters of sea water (and that is just the immediate vicinity of the discharge), use non-biodegradable dish soap on board? Do you have any idea how harmful that is to marine life even in very low concentrations?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Of all of this stuff, by far the most harmful, I believe, is what gets discharged in gray water.

Well mainstream media is NOT a credible source, but here on the Chesapeake Bay, it seems birth control chemicals are the worst.

[Tayana42]

From what I understand, on the Chesapeake Bay the worst pollution comes from agricultural runoff. Pesticides, fertilizer, manure at an industrial scale is the biggest problem.

[Amapola]

We have a large 110 gal holding tank. When in the US, we use pump out facilities. When out at sea, we dump legally.

[Seabeau]

You left out options for composters. I dump the desiccated contents of mine, on my own property, in a mulch composting bin dedicated to my flower gardening needs.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

You left out options for composters.

Here in Annapolis composting toilets are no longer allowed on City mooring balls. Too many boaters dumping compost in waste bins.

[jtsailjt]

I had an eye opening experience with composting a few years ago and was again reminded of it this spring. Those with no interest in composting may want to skip over this post.

My family has had a summer cottage on a big, mostly spring fed lake that’s the drinking water supply for the local area. When the cottage was built back in the late 50’s it was customary to plumb a normal household toilet out to a wooden box buried in the ground that was covered by about 4”-6” of dirt. In order to keep excessive amounts of rainwater from flooding it the top of the box was a piece of exterior plywood supported by some creosote coated planks they got from old power lines but the sides and bottom of the box had 1/4” spaces between boards so liquids could easily drain into the surrounding soil and dirt didn’t fall into to box. The size of the box was about 3’x3’ and it was only about 2’ deep due to numerous granite boulders of various sizes scattered everywhere. My family of 6 would live full time in this cottage from mid June until school started around September 1 and it’s continued to be used regularly for 2-3 summer months each year. Around year 2000 the toilet began to occasionally have trouble flushing so we decided to dig up the box one spring day before we opened the camp up for the season to see what the problem was. We’d never had any odors so I was surprised to learn it was buried so shallowly. Once we removed the top I was amazed to find a virtually empty space with a very small amount (1”) of what looked like dried peat moss on the bottom. The problem we found was the the boards had rotted and sides had started to cave in the side near where the sewer pipe entered to box, partially obstructing the flow. After more than 40 years of 6 people using it regularly all summer, thousands of flushes each year, there was no sign of anything resembling toilet paper or human waste inside. Despite urine not being separated like with a composting toilet the bacteria had “eaten” everything so thoroughly that even after so many years the amount of desiccated material left behind wasn’t enough to fill a small wheelbarrow. I realize this isn’t about dumping or boats but I thought those of you with composting toilets might be interested to hear just how thoroughly the composting process can dispose of waste in the right conditions. It all ended this spring when we finally decided to have a proper septic system with leach field installed to accomplish the same thing. Now the gray water is also included and it is all routed first to about a 50 gallon tank with a big diaphragm pump and a float switch, then to a 1000(!) gallon concrete tank buried in the ground, and finally to 8 concrete risers as a leach field we can drive over. After seeing how well the simple wooden box worked it all seems like incredible overkill to me but now we’re up to date and in compliance with the plumbing code, hallelujah.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Here in Annapolis composting toilets are no longer allowed on City mooring balls. Too many boaters dumping compost in waste bins.

Isn't that restriction for extended stays of a week or more?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Of all of this stuff, by far the most harmful, I believe, is what gets discharged in gray water. How many of you who freak out about 400 grams of human waste discharged into a billion liters of sea water (and that is just the immediate vicinity of the discharge), use non-biodegradable dish soap on board? Do you have any idea how harmful that is to marine life even in very low concentrations?

So are you advocating outlawing dish soap? Don't they use (Dawn) dish soap to clean up birds that have been caught in oil spills?

Bottom line is, pollution is caused by humans. There are too many humans. We need to get rid of some humans and limit the number of new ones.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Here in Annapolis composting toilets are no longer allowed on City mooring balls. Too many boaters dumping compost in waste bins.

The term "composing toilet" is false advertising. It takes months to make compost from poop and you will never have compost if you add fresh poop every day or two.

The output of a "composting toilet" is nothing more than human waste mixed in with whatever media has been used.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The term "composing toilet" is false advertising. It takes months to make compost from poop and you will never have compost if you add fresh poop every day or two.

Practical Sailor had an article back in June that I think mostly agreed with this - and for that reason they renamed these "Dessicating Heads". The point being that by separating the solid waste from any liquids, the bacteria dry or sporulate, and odor goes way, way down. That is quite distinct from making compost.

My understanding is that it takes a good deal more than just sitting around for a few months for human solid waste to turn into anything like compost. One approach is to treat it with non-pathogenic bacteria and then heat inactivate it a la Milorganite.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Of all of this stuff, by far the most harmful, I believe, is what gets discharged in gray water. How many of you who freak out about 400 grams of human waste discharged into a billion liters of sea water (and that is just the immediate vicinity of the discharge), use non-biodegradable dish soap on board? Do you have any idea how harmful that is to marine life even in very low concentrations?

Just about all the boaters I know have taken pains to only use bio-degradable non-toxic cleaning products onboard. This is probably because we're on the Great Lakes with its more stringent rules, and because most of these folks are also avid campers/canoers/hikers and very mindful of their camping footprint.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

... non-biodegradable dish soap on board? Do you have any idea how harmful that is to marine life even in very low concentrations?

This is a good point. I've done bioassay testing on industrial wastewater plants (consulting engineer and former lab devil), and the effect of surfactants on plankton and small fish is always breathtaking. Use as little soap as possible, preferably none when avoidable.


In fact, using surfactants to clean up oil spills and wildlife is a very complicated subject. It is nearly always a bad idea (I was involved in treating water and waste from the Gulf spill--I was engineering lead for and designed/built one of the largest oily water treatment plants in NOLA). Much of the wastewater (from cleaning spill recovery equipment and wildlife was recovered (not released to the Gulf dirrectly) and treated off-site. But I'm not going to unpack that here.


(This from a chemical guy who produced chemicals and likes them... but I am also very big on effective industrial and municipal waste treatment.)

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Here in Annapolis composting toilets are no longer allowed on City mooring balls. Too many boaters dumping compost in waste bins.

That is not the whole story. I had several long talks with the harbor master.


They have had a problem with a few bum boaters who would dump their trash and poop bags in the small trash cans in the park right next to the park benches at the dinghy dock. Nasty and thoughtless. They have commercial bins available at the harbor master's office; this is where trash from boats in the marina and on mooring is supposed to go.


Dispose of the waste appropriately and there is no problem.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

That is not the whole story. I had several long talks with the harbor master.


They have had a problem with a few bum boaters who would dump their trash and poop bags in the small trash cans in the park right next to the park benches at the dinghy dock. Nasty and thoughtless. They have commercial bins available at the harbor master's office; this is where trash from boats in the marina and on mooring is supposed to go.


Dispose of the waste appropriately and there is no problem.

As usual, the few ruin things for the many. Still seems like a massive overreaction on the part of Annapolis, but I'm not there.

With regard to detergents and soaps, the one study I found that looked directly at the impact of recreational boaters in the Med found that while black water discharge had a LOW impact in some areas, grey water was rated MODERATE. In other words grey water is likely a bigger issue.

The only soaps we use on board are rated "biodegradable," and we always try and use as little as needed. But I'm sure even this stuff is not good for the ecosystem. There's no free lunch anywhere, and we're always going to have some impact. The trick is to be aware, and to try and cause as little damage as possible.