Where do you dump?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm confused then. They're discussing the problem of sorting, and contamination of the whole bin, necessitating the need to send it to the landfill. I don't understand how they can accept all household waste, and not have this problem occur constantly, regardless of the semi-composted material. Or am I misreading it?

It does seem that if composting heads are becoming common on the canals that a dedicated bin would make sense. But I'm also guessing from reading the site materials that the trust is primarily volunteer and that funding tight, paid for by boat licenses (which also has to maintain the canal system).

Well, somehow they installed a wet sewage system. I'd think collecting semi-composted material would be a lot easier and cheaper than a wet system. But I get it... it can't just spring into reality.



Probably... for now. But change happens, and it just makes sense to set up a proper collection for this material, just like was done for the wet sewage.

I just reported something interesting I saw. I did not intend to add commentary. Different country, different situation (canals with lots of live-aboards, most of it suburban or semi-urban).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I just reported something interesting I saw. I did not intend to add commentary. Different country, different situation (canals with lots of live-aboards, most of it suburban or semi-urban).

I know, and I appreciate the info. Just trying to understand it. From the info, it seems like another knee-jerk reaction to a problem that can't be new, and could easily be addressed in other ways.

[jtsailjt]

“Compost” sounds so benign compared to “partially dried sewage” so they call them composting toilets even though what comes out of them isn’t actually compost. If it actually were compost it seems to me that these boat owners would just take it home and put it in their flower gardens or give it away to a friend. But they don’t because they know it’s not really compost in the normal sense of the word..

Wikipedia has this to say about composted human feces: “as there are potential health risks that need to be managed. In the case of home composting, a wide range of microorganisms including bacteria, viruses and parasitic worms can be present in feces, and improper processing can pose significant health risks.[29] In the case of large sewage treatment facilities that collect wastewater from a range of residential, commercial and industrial sources, there are additional considerations. The composted sewage sludge, referred to as biosolids, can be contaminated with a variety of metals and pharmaceutical compounds.[30][31] Insufficient processing of biosolids can also lead to problems when the material is applied to land.[32]”

I can’t think of too many things much more disgusting than a packet of human feces left in a trash receptacle where flies will inevitably come in contact with it and then with nearby people, spreading any bacteria and viruses that may be present. It just seems SO much more sanitary to dump it in ocean where the salt water will quickly dilute and sterilize it.

[hpeer]

Sorry if my response to the dumpster question seemed a little over the top. Was meant to answer the poster who did’t see how dumping human waste in a dumpster could be a problem.

Each locale handles things differently and solutions need to fit the location. Not easy to do when we are a small community and budgets are tight and we move between locations.

That is why we personally have multiple methods of handling our human waste.

Our big boat has a Purasan and a holding tank and ability to discharge.

Our hunting cabin has a Incinolet, and the old non-code septic tank just gets grey water.

Our Newfoundland cabin has a traditional septic tank and receives only seasonal use.

Our city rental apartment building is connected to the sewer system, which probably means it is direct discharge into the Delaware River right now due Ida flooding.

[Mike OReilly]

So... if anyone cares to follow the actual intent of this thread, the new tally of who's dumping where goes like this:

With 163 votes in we continue to run at 63% (103 votes) dumping legally and 37% (60 votes) making their own choices about where best to dump.

It's been pretty consistent for a long time. Not saying it's statistically sound (it isn't), but it's pretty good numbers for a CF poll.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

“Compost” sounds so benign compared to “partially dried sewage” so they call them composting toilets even though what comes out of them isn’t actually compost. If it actually were compost it seems to me that these boat owners would just take it home and put it in their flower gardens or give it away to a friend. But they don’t because they know it’s not really compost in the normal sense of the word..

Wikipedia has this to say about composted human feces: “as there are potential health risks that need to be managed. In the case of home composting, a wide range of microorganisms including bacteria, viruses and parasitic worms can be present in feces, and improper processing can pose significant health risks.[29] In the case of large sewage treatment facilities that collect wastewater from a range of residential, commercial and industrial sources, there are additional considerations. The composted sewage sludge, referred to as biosolids, can be contaminated with a variety of metals and pharmaceutical compounds.[30][31] Insufficient processing of biosolids can also lead to problems when the material is applied to land.[32]”

I can’t think of too many things much more disgusting than a packet of human feces left in a trash receptacle where flies will inevitably come in contact with it and then with nearby people, spreading any bacteria and viruses that may be present. It just seems SO much more sanitary to dump it in ocean where the salt water will quickly dilute and sterilize it.

Think this through.


If you have open ocean, you don't have a dumpster. If you have a dumpster, you don't have open ocean.



There is no conflict in many cases. We are talking river/lake/canal/estuary vs. ocean. Some sail both, but some don't see open ocean for years at a time or never.


And no one here is talking about about waste bins. We are talking double bagged in dumpsters that are dumped by machine. You have created a straw man.


There are many acceptable practices and many poor practices.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Think this through.


If you have open ocean, you don't have a dumpster. If you have a dumpster, you don't have open ocean.



There is no conflict in many cases. We are talking river/lake/canal/estuary vs. ocean. Some sail both, but some don't see open ocean for years at a time or never.


And no one here is talking about about waste bins. We are talking double bagged in dumpsters that are dumped by machine. You have created a straw man.


There are many acceptable practices and many poor practices.

You are obviously trying to justify putting human waste into dumpsters. We know that exposure to human waste can cause disease, that is why we have special places for human waste (toilets) where it will be properly treated.

Dumping human waste in a dumpster assures that it won't be treated properly. The bag may break when other things are thrown into the dumpster and the bag may break during the process of emptying the dumpster.

You know better, but are making excuses.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You are obviously trying to justify putting human waste into dumpsters. We know that exposure to human waste can cause disease, that is why we have special places for human waste (toilets) where it will be properly treated.



Dumping human waste in a dumpster assures that it won't be treated properly. The bag may break when other things are thrown into the dumpster and the bag may break during the process of emptying the dumpster.



You know better, but are making excuses.

So we throw diapers in the toilet?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by smj

So we throw diapers in the toilet?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thinwater

And no one here is talking about about waste bins.

I am. It's a real problem here in Annapolis.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I am. It's a real problem here in Annapolis.

If it's really a problem, and if the popularity of these heads are on the rise (as I believe they are), shouldn't we be encouraging authorities to set up a system for collecting the waste?

We did it for liquid effluent. If anything, it should be a lot easier to do it for the desiccated, partially composted waste that comes out of these heads.

As with other forms of refuse, if we don't make it easy and cost-effective, people will find ways to circumvent the rules. Seems a no-brainer -- IF it really is a problem.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If it's really a problem, and if the popularity of these heads are on the rise (as I believe they are), shouldn't we be encouraging authorities to set up a system for collecting the waste?

We did it for liquid effluent. If anything, it should be a lot easier to do it for the desiccated, partially composted waste that comes out of these heads.

As with other forms of refuse, if we don't make it easy and cost-effective, people will find ways to circumvent the rules. Seems a no-brainer -- IF it really is a problem.

I think a much better solution is to discourage people from installing them because on the day you decide to clean it out, if there’s been you and one or two other people using it for the last few days, what you’re removing isn’t even close to compost or fully desiccated. It’s just partially dried human feces that will now be on land to attract flies near where people live and will be very unlikely to find its way to a proper treatment plant.

You’ve said that you generally dump yours out at sea and I think that’s a much preferable solution to leaving it in a trash bin or dumpster, except once it’s partially dried out I assume it floats for awhile in the ocean and if you hadn’t dried it out it more easily would be diluted and sanitized by the salt. But if you’re going to dump it at sea, i don’t know why you wouldn’t prefer to just have a marine head and holding tank to avoid having to handle it. I can see how fresh water cruisers might think it’s a good option because dumping isn’t an option for them, but I wouldn’t want to be the unsuspecting guy who happens to come along and throws his milkshake container in the trash or even a dumpster just after someone dropped off the contents of their recently used “composting” head.

Now that “the authorities” have placed hundreds of little used and frequently nonworking pumpout stations all up and down the coast, about the last thing we need is for the “authorities” to spend a bunch more of “our” money on a lot of facilities dedicated to collecting partially dried out human waste because a very small minority want to use these types of heads on boats but don’t want to bear the expense or go to the trouble of properly disposing of their waste themself. We’re making this WAY too hard! If you primarily do your boating in open ocean, just make sure it’s well broken up or macerated and pump it over the side. As is often true, in this case the simplest solution is the best one! [emoji4]

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think a much better solution is to discourage people from installing them because on the day you decide to clean it out, if there’s been you and one or two other people using it for the last few days, what you’re removing isn’t even close to compost or fully desiccated. It’s just partially dried human feces that will now be on land to attract flies near where people live and will be very unlikely to find its way to a proper treatment plant.

And how do you feel about the far greater volume of wet human feces that comes in from used diapers? How about the blood and human tissue that arrives via feminine hygiene products? I assume you also want to discourage their use as well?

... no, of course not . And we won't even get into all the dog poop that gets deposited. Instead of responding irrationally to the reality, why not try and deal with the issue? It's much like recognizing that the 3nm limit is not reasonable for many boaters.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

You’ve said that you generally dump yours out at sea and I think that’s a much preferable solution to leaving it in a trash bin or dumpster,

I do. I've only had to resort to a dumpster (never a trash bin) a few times over the near decade I've had my composter. Most of the time it gets dumped at sea, or on land in a remote corner. Remember, I cruise in remote areas, so it's not a problem to find places far off any beaten path.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

But if you’re going to dump it at sea, i don’t know why you wouldn’t prefer to just have a marine head and holding tank to avoid having to handle it.

Because there are so many advantages to a composter over a standard marine head. You'd know this if you had any actual experience with these heads. This is not supposed to be a composter thread, so I'll just direct you to one of the many. But as anyone with actual experience with these heads will tell you, they are just better in almost every way.

I've got nothing against a standard marine head. I used them for over a decade with few problems. I didn't switch because I disliked my old head. I learned of a better way.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I can see how fresh water cruisers might think it’s a good option because dumping isn’t an option for them, but I wouldn’t want to be the unsuspecting guy who happens to come along and throws his milkshake container in the trash or even a dumpster just after someone dropped off the contents of their recently used “composting” head.

First off, you wouldn't notice unless you go digging around. But more importantly, this is a straw man. No one is suggesting people do this. It's kinda like saying "I wouldn't want to be the swimmer after someone opens their Y-valve inside the 3nm limit.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Now that “the authorities” have placed hundreds of little used and frequently nonworking pumpout stations all up and down the coast, about the last thing we need is for the “authorities” to spend a bunch more of “our” money on a lot of facilities dedicated to collecting partially dried out human waste because a very small minority want to use these types of heads on boats but don’t want to bear the expense or go to the trouble of properly disposing of their waste themself. We’re making this WAY too hard! If you primarily do your boating in open ocean, just make sure it’s well broken up or macerated and pump it over the side. As is often true, in this case the simplest solution is the best one! [emoji4]

Wow, so it's OK for "the authorities" to spend "our" money dealing with your poop, but not other peoples'?

[rwidman]

We stayed at a marina in Maryland (USA) for several days and got to know a young couple on a small sailboat in the next slip over. My wife had noticed the girl carrying a container back and forth and eventually asked her about it.

She said it was their "pee container".

Yep, they had taken out a perfectly good marine toilet and holding tank and installed a contraption that required them to carry the jug of urine ashore at least daily and empty it into the toilet in the bathhouse.

Meanwhile, we just peed (and pooped) in our marine head and eventually had it pumped out and eventually treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rwidman

We stayed at a marina in Maryland (USA) for several days and got to know a young couple on a small sailboat in the next slip over. My wife had noticed the girl carrying a container back and forth and eventually asked her about it.



She said it was their "pee container".



Yep, they had taken out a perfectly good marine toilet and holding tank and installed a contraption that required them to carry the jug of urine ashore at least daily and empty it into the toilet in the bathhouse.



Meanwhile, we just peed (and pooped) in our marine head and eventually had it pumped out and eventually treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility.

Wow, carrying a gallon of pee a day is a hardship to you?[emoji23]