Where do you dump?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by smj

Wow, carrying a gallon of pee a day is a hardship to you?[emoji23]

Well, that's a pretty rude reply!
You can't have a little more respect than that?

It's kind of inconvenient, especially if it's raining and it's totally unnecessary if you have a conventional head and holding tank on your boat.

Buy yes, given the choice (and I have that choice), I would rather not be handling my pee and poop once it has left my body.

If you enjoy carrying jugs of pee down the dock from your boat to the bath house, go right ahead, enjoy yourself.

[thinwater]

It's all good discussion.


The challenges are:

• Which method best fits your sailing area, boat, and sailing style (cruising vs. day sailing vs. racing).
• Best waste disposal methods (pump-out vs. at-sea vs. dumpster vs. composting). I have no interest in discussing either people who discharge in harbor areas instead of offshore, or dispose of bags in small bins rather than dumpsters. Improper is improper.

I'm also not interested in phobias or people who feel disease does not exist.


We also need to be realistic and accept that sewers overflow, dumpsters are not a basket of fruit, pump outs do not exist in all places, and composting requires simple controls. Finally, each person can decide what tasks bother them.


I've used both systems and know they both can work and both have downsides. I have pumped at sea, pumped to POTW (never pumped in harbor), disposed in dumpster (never a small bin), and composted at home (large lot--not a big problem). I don't have a drum to bang.


----


I wonder what portion take waste home to compost. I'm guessing more common with RVs than boats. The only reason I composted at home was that I was testing units, so that was the easiest way. With some of the units (C-Head and some DIY) transporting in a bucket is just as easy as bagging (you just swap buckets). For those that have never used a unit, it is not compost, but depending on drying effectiveness, it is not poop either. It can be more like litter box scoopings.


So the question is, is there a practical disposal method that is better than double bagging in a dumpster? Do we need a better method? If the waste had to be hauled home, what would the design look like? Liveaboards are a different problem; they don't have a home.



Let's assume that 95% of the users are seldom out for longer than the unit can hold (solids). I think this is true. The exceptions don't represent enough volume for me to worry about it.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Well, that's a pretty rude reply!

You can't have a little more respect than that?



It's kind of inconvenient, especially if it's raining and it's totally unnecessary if you have a conventional head and holding tank on your boat.



Buy yes, given the choice (and I have that choice), I would rather not be handling my pee and poop once it has left my body.



If you enjoy carrying jugs of pee down the dock from your boat to the bath house, go right ahead, enjoy yourself.

Rude? I don’t think so.
Instead of making fun of or demeaning the young couple with the pee jug maybe give them kudos for being responsible with their waste?
Our composting head uses a standard 1 gallon milk/water jug so we always have extras if needed.
Out of our 30 years of cruising/living on boats we have used a conventional holding tank system for 15 years and a composting system for 15 years so I think I can speak from experience when I say I’ve been in contact with my pee and poop WAY less with the composter vs the holding tank system. In fact I can’t remember ever touching any poop since being with a composter, something I definitely can’t say about the conventional system.
So I will happily carry my urine jugs to the bathrooms or Porta pottie dumping stations, and I’m sure you will happily search for the pump out when needed.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by smj

Rude? I don’t think so.
Instead of making fun of or demeaning the young couple with the pee jug maybe give them kudos for being responsible with their waste?
Our composting head uses a standard 1 gallon milk/water jug so we always have extras if needed.
Out of our 30 years of cruising/living on boats we have used a conventional holding tank system for 15 years and a composting system for 15 years so I think I can speak from experience when I say I’ve been in contact with my pee and poop WAY less with the composter vs the holding tank system. In fact I can’t remember ever touching any poop since being with a composter, something I definitely can’t say about the conventional system.
So I will happily carry my urine jugs to the bathrooms or Porta pottie dumping stations, and I’m sure you will happily search for the pump out when needed.

Yes, Rude!

You intentionally phrased your response as an insult.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If it's really a problem, and if the popularity of these heads are on the rise (as I believe they are), shouldn't we be encouraging authorities to set up a system for collecting the waste?

It is much easier for politicians to forbid things than to budget for and execute a service. Regardless, "composting" toilets are a pretty niche thing.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think a much better solution is to discourage people from installing them because on the day you decide to clean it out, if there’s been you and one or two other people using it for the last few days, what you’re removing isn’t even close to compost or fully desiccated.

Agreed. Disposal is asking a lot of municipal employees. It brings to mind images of old of people dumping waste onto mud streets. Wasn't disease a rather greater problem then?

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And how do you feel about the far greater volume of wet human feces that comes in from used diapers?

I'm not impressed with the use of disposable diapers either, but small humans seem to get a free pass for a lot of things, as do their parents.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

It is much easier for politicians to forbid things than to budget for and execute a service. Regardless, "composting" toilets are a pretty niche thing.

They are probably niche the way holding tanks were when first introduced. It is changing. But of course, everything 'boating' is niche, so I don't really expect any action from politicians.

I think the USA got all their pumpout stations during the heyday of the EPA's efforts to clean up the world. I don't see a return to those halcyon days, but it would be far easier to set up collection systems for these heads vs how difficult and costly it is/was to managing liquid effluent.

Regardless, I think use of these heads is on the rise. If people aren't provided an easy and cost-effective way of dealing with their waste, they will find other ways. It's much like why so many people ignore the 3nm limit.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I'm not impressed with the use of disposable diapers either, but small humans seem to get a free pass for a lot of things, as do their parents.

Perhaps, but the point is, if you're honestly concerned about the waste from these heads, then you should be up-in-arms regarding soiled diapers and feminine hygiene products, both of which present far greater risks to human health.

And given that we haven't seen any impact from these items on public health, nor on the waste disposal workers, I think this whole issue is a red herring.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There are many acceptable practices and many poor practices.

And in spite of Mike's good intentions, this thread is getting hijacked just like the other thread that was shut down on dumping near shore. We keep getting the same rigamarole, which is justifying dumping sewage near shore based on the fact that it is ok to flush a head once a hundred miles from shore.

You are spot on re acceptable and poor practices. The justifications for dumping near shore are pathetic.

Really tiresome. But I hope Mike keeps trying!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by lestersails

And in spite of Mike's good intentions, this thread is getting hijacked just like the other thread that was shut down on dumping near shore. We keep getting the same rigamarole, which is justifying dumping sewage near shore based on the fact that it is ok to flush a head once a hundred miles from shore.

You are spot on re acceptable and poor practices. The justifications for dumping near shore are pathetic.

Really tiresome. But I hope Mike keeps trying!

Thanks Lester. I should listen to your sage advice . I guess I've given up trying to keep drift from drifting.

Seriously folks, if you want to argue about composting heads, there are lots of threads on that topic. This one was meant to be a simple poll about how and where people dump their human waste.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Lester. I should listen to your sage advice . I guess I've given up trying to keep drift from drifting.

Seriously folks, if you want to argue about composting heads, there are lots of threads on that topic. This one was meant to be a simple poll about how and where people dump their human waste.

Sorry about my part on the thread drift.
I’m unable to vote in the poll as it doesn’t appear to show up on the CF app.
85% of the time we dump our solids from our composter in the dumpster. 10% would be in a trash can and the remaining 5% in the water offshore.
85% of the time we dump our urine in either a toilet or a porta pottie waste station. The other 15% of the time the urine is dumped either offshore or in a wide open anchorage at night when no one is swimming.
I’m guessing we are 100% legal in dumping solids and close to but not quite 100% on the urine.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think the USA got all their pumpout stations during the heyday of the EPA's efforts to clean up the world. I don't see a return to those halcyon days, but it would be far easier to set up collection systems for these heads vs how difficult and costly it is/was to managing liquid effluent.

I respectfully disagree. Pump-outs went into a conventional, terrestrial waste stream either a wastewater treatment system or a septic tank that has a huge existing infrastructure of pump trucks.

Dealing with the waste from a "composting" toilet would require an entirely new infrastructure.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Regardless, I think use of these heads is on the rise. If people aren't provided an easy and cost-effective way of dealing with their waste, they will find other ways.

I would say I'm concerned but not up in arms. Moderation. *grin*

My concern is that poor behavior by people using "composting" toilets is that it is yet another issue that will lead to additional legislation that makes cruising and even general boating more difficult. There are enough places where anchoring rights and the ability to get ashore are becoming limited. Annapolis has already passed legislation about "composting" toilets and is surely not alone.

On the topic of thread drift, I suggest we really haven't. We're dealing with terms. Some of your data set should be adjusted as at least in some areas, disposing of "compost" in public waste bins and dumpsters is illegal.

[Auspicious]

Here is the report I have about Annapolis regulation.

Boats with composting heads are welcome in City Waters. They may transit through, stay at private or public docks for as long as they like People with composting heads may not stay in City waters ON ANCHOR OR ON A MOORING longer than one (1) week. Composting heads are not designed for uninterrupted use, and when users dispose of the solids in our public trash cans, this creates a public health concern. Users are also tempted to dump urine overboard, in violation of state and local laws and ordinances.

I've written to our Harbormaster for the underlying regulations and to ask if she is aware of other jurisdictions with similar limitations.

While possible, it is difficult for me to believe Annapolis is unique in this respect.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Lester. I should listen to your sage advice . I guess I've given up trying to keep drift from drifting.

Seriously folks, if you want to argue about composting heads, there are lots of threads on that topic. This one was meant to be a simple poll about how and where people dump their human waste.

Technically you asked about sewage, but if the question was about human waste, then we're not so far off topic. There are two forms of waste; solid and liquid. For the latter there seem to be three answers:

1. At sea
2. Dumpster
3. Trash can
4. Compost
5. Other possibilities

Numbers 1 and 4 have no obvious objection. Thus, we are comparing disposal inside 3 miles and inside harbors (illegal, but rightness and wrongness can be argued) with dumpsters (legal in dumpsters but not in all trash cans, unless someone can find something else in writing, and we could argue rightness). It seem to me the two topics are not so different. Differences in operation on-board are a completely different topic, and that would be drift.


Urine disposal is a parallel but simpler problem.

1. At sea
2. Rest room
3. Inside 3-mile limit
4. In the woods or other composting
5. Other possibilities

In this case, only option 3 is potentially objectionable.




You could, of course, start a separate solid waste disposal survey.



This blogger dug deeply into the topic:
https://www.livesmallridefree.com/bl...posting-toilet

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And how do you feel about the far greater volume of wet human feces that comes in from used diapers? How about the blood and human tissue that arrives via feminine hygiene products? I assume you also want to discourage their use as well?

... no, of course not . And we won't even get into all the dog poop that gets deposited. Instead of responding irrationally to the reality, why not try and deal with the issue? It's much like recognizing that the 3nm limit is not reasonable for many boaters.



I do. I've only had to resort to a dumpster (never a trash bin) a few times over the near decade I've had my composter. Most of the time it gets dumped at sea, or on land in a remote corner. Remember, I cruise in remote areas, so it's not a problem to find places far off any beaten path.



Because there are so many advantages to a composter over a standard marine head. You'd know this if you had any actual experience with these heads. This is not supposed to be a composter thread, so I'll just direct you to one of the many. But as anyone with actual experience with these heads will tell you, they are just better in almost every way.

I've got nothing against a standard marine head. I used them for over a decade with few problems. I didn't switch because I disliked my old head. I learned of a better way.



First off, you wouldn't notice unless you go digging around. But more importantly, this is a straw man. No one is suggesting people do this. It's kinda like saying "I wouldn't want to be the swimmer after someone opens their Y-valve inside the 3nm limit.



Wow, so it's OK for "the authorities" to spend "our" money dealing with your poop, but not other peoples'?

No, I’ve never said that I felt they should have used tax payers money on pumpouts that are frequently out of order and infrequently used unless it’s in a location where boaters pollution has proved to be a problem. I thought that was obvious. Similarly, they shouldn’t be wasting money on putting dried human feces receptacles all around for composting head owners convenience.

I agree with you that both feminine hygiene products and disposable diapers can be pretty disgusting when not properly disposed of, and they’re even worse because they are made of synthetic materials that last almost forever, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with leaving dried feces in marina trash bins or dumpsters, often with restaurants nearby. I understand that ‘in theory’ the waste will be completely desiccated and odorless and properly packaged but I think we both know that neither condition will always occur and some people will be less careful than they should be with it so innocent people will be exposed to something they’d rather not see or smell.

I think these type heads make good sense in areas with a shortage of water or for RV owners who have the means to drive to where they can properly dispose of the dried waste or for freshwater boaters who don’t have good access to pump-outs because of the much greater capacity of a composting head over a boat with a typical 25-50 gallon holding tank. I also have no problem with boaters like you who throw the desiccated material overboard at sea, even if they’re not in remote areas like you are. But cruising boaters who bring their waste ashore usually don’t have easy access to transportation so the disposal option they will most frequently use will be whatever’s most readily available which is a marina trash bin or dumpster and since it won’t always be completely dried or well packaged I hope you can understand my objection.

[thinwater]

^^^ Then the challenge, like holding tanks, is largely education.



I spent a good bit of time looking for rules or even government advice on disposal of WAG bags, often handed out by FEMA in the 100s of thousands in the wake of hurricanes and the like. I also looked for bag specs. Curiously, I found nothing.

[thinwater]

My neighborhood has many dedicated dog poop cans along trails. The owners all have yards, but wouldn't want the dog to poop there. The bins are provided and serviced by the county. If they don't provide the cans, either the owner must carry the waste home, drop it any household can (some do) or they can drop the bag on the trail side (some do).