Where do you dump?

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Lester. I should listen to your sage advice . I guess I've given up trying to keep drift from drifting.

Seriously folks, if you want to argue about composting heads, there are lots of threads on that topic. This one was meant to be a simple poll about how and where people dump their human waste.

I don’t know where you or anyone else got the idea that they have any authority to decide in what direction a thread should take. If you start a thread then you get to make the first post and hopefully some posters will respond in a way you originally had in mind, but many others will have different ideas on how the thread should develop and their thoughts regarding this are no more or less valid than yours. The instant you complete your first post you no longer have any more control or say about the direction the thread will take than anyone else does. I’m not sure where this controlling instinct regarding “thread drift” comes from but I think it’s pretty odd. All threads drift, sometimes in a direction we like and sometimes in a direction we don’t like. All any of us can do is post what WE think is pertinent to the general subject and if we don’t like what someone else’s posts contain we always have the ignore option. But there is no option to demand that others conform to what your idea of the direction any thread “should” take.

[hpeer]

I have always held the belief that the ORIGINAL POSTER has some special authority in policing a thread he started. That makes sense because it was the OP who had the original idea and frequently needs to explain what the question was about.

As Mike pointed out there are many other and better thread to dish **** in ****.
This one is about the poll.

Not that I am not above drifting, and when the OP complains I try to follow his lead.

[Mike OReilly]

Oh, I'm OK either way Howard. I've tried to steer things back to the original intent, but I know people just love to fight about composting heads. For some reason, it brings out a disproportionate amount of uninformed, yet strongly held opinions (not saying that applies to everyone here).

Personally, I think some people are just more squeamish about their own waste. And most of us have grown up in a "flush and forget" world, so I get it that many of these folks would dislike the idea.

But I really get tired having to argue the same points, over and over. It's all been covered before on these other composting threads. I'll just say, as someone who has experience with both systems, I much prefer my Nature's Head. Almost everyone who has switched, agrees.

For me and my style of cruising, it has many advantages over the old wet-sewage system, but one of the disadvantages is that you have to be slightly more intimate with your outflows. If you are squeamish about that, then these heads are not for you.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I don’t know where you or anyone else got the idea that they have any authority to decide in what direction a thread should take. (redacted) But there is no option to demand that others conform to what your idea of the direction any thread “should” take.

Mike asked people to not turn this into another composting toilet argument thread. No "authority", no "demand" - he asked. Let's not dial the indignation knob up to 9 just yet.
I think hpeer has it right - it is reasonable for the OP to have the option of asking that his topic not get derailed. It would be thoughtful and considerate to respond positively to that.

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks Lester. I appreciate the voice of calm and reason .

For anyone who's actually here for the topic of this thread, the running tally has 62% dumping legally (106 votes) and 38% doing their own thing (64 votes).

The votes keep notching up, so I guess I should be happy people keep bumping this thread.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Oh, I'm OK either way Howard. I've tried to steer things back to the original intent, but I know people just love to fight about composting heads. For some reason, it brings out a disproportionate amount of uninformed, yet strongly held opinions (not saying that applies to everyone here).

Personally, I think some people are just more squeamish about their own waste. And most of us have grown up in a "flush and forget" world, so I get it that many of these folks would dislike the idea.

But I really get tired having to argue the same points, over and over. It's all been covered before on these other composting threads. I'll just say, as someone who has experience with both systems, I much prefer my Nature's Head. Almost everyone who has switched, agrees.

For me and my style of cruising, it has many advantages over the old wet-sewage system, but one of the disadvantages is that you have to be slightly more intimate with your outflows. If you are squeamish about that, then these heads are not for you.

LOL, yes many of us prefer to not handle our own waste and I hope you’re not surprised by that. Some kinds of intimacy on a boat are quite wonderful, and others are best avoided to the maximum extent possible. Dealing with human waste up close and personal falls clearly into the latter category. As far as I’m concerned, flush and forget is the ideal situation and is pretty easy to achieve something pretty close to that when you have an unlimited supply of water and a holding tank or type 1 device onboard.

The thing is that, while I don’t want one on my boat, I have no problem with you having yours and responsibly dumping it in the open ocean where it won’t affect anyone else. So, since that’s how you handle it, and nobody else has any exposure to it, it’s none of anybody else’s business, and of course that includes me. My problem is with the suggestion that the product is harmless and almost undetectable when it’s brought ashore because that’s only true in advertising literature and under ideal conditions with conscientious operators. I don’t like the idea of cruisers bringing their partially dried out feces ashore and leaving it in garbage repositories that others will unknowingly get very close to, and that includes both public trash cans and dumpsters. Yes, others put some pretty nasty stuff in dumpsters but not usually things like human waste that can contain nasty viruses snd bacteria that can be spread by flies, and just because some of that is currently going on, more is not better! Unfortunately most cruisers away from their home port don’t have the necessary transportation to take their waste to a proper dump site, so unless they dump it at sea, I think it would be better for everyone else if they had a traditional system that could be pumped out at the dock or easily dumped at sea without any of those “intimate” interactions with it that you seem to have become accustomed to.

Nobody is forcing you to argue any points over and over so if you’re tired of it….. But looking at your total post count, I’m not holding onto much hope that you’ll conquer that compulsion anytime soon. [emoji6]

[Auspicious]

An update from the Annapolis Harbormaster. She's on holiday but was kind enough to respond quickly. What I posted above is mostly correct. The limit in city waters is two weeks on a mooring or at anchor or at the municipal dock if you have a composting toilet. Apparently people are still disposing of "compost" in waste bins along City Dock and that is a problem, or at least perceived to be a problem. More regulation is coming. She'll send me the draft ordinance when she gets home.

I think at least some of the "we're legal" votes should be "we do what we want" with respect to composting heads.

[smj]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

LOL, yes many of us prefer to not handle our own waste and I hope you’re not surprised by that. Some kinds of intimacy on a boat are quite wonderful, and others are best avoided to the maximum extent possible. Dealing with human waste up close and personal falls clearly into the latter category. As far as I’m concerned, flush and forget is the ideal situation and is pretty easy to achieve something pretty close to that when you have an unlimited supply of water and a holding tank or type 1 device onboard.

The thing is that, while I don’t want one on my boat, I have no problem with you having yours and responsibly dumping it in the open ocean where it won’t affect anyone else. So, since that’s how you handle it, and nobody else has any exposure to it, it’s none of anybody else’s business, and of course that includes me. My problem is with the suggestion that the product is harmless and almost undetectable when it’s brought ashore because that’s only true in advertising literature and under ideal conditions with conscientious operators. I don’t like the idea of cruisers bringing their partially dried out feces ashore and leaving it in garbage repositories that others will unknowingly get very close to, and that includes both public trash cans and dumpsters. Yes, others put some pretty nasty stuff in dumpsters but not usually things like human waste that can contain nasty viruses snd bacteria that can be spread by flies, and just because some of that is currently going on, more is not better! Unfortunately most cruisers away from their home port don’t have the necessary transportation to take their waste to a proper dump site, so unless they dump it at sea, I think it would be better for everyone else if they had a traditional system that could be pumped out at the dock or easily dumped at sea without any of those “intimate” interactions with it that you seem to have become accustomed to.

Nobody is forcing you to argue any points over and over so if you’re tired of it….. But looking at your total post count, I’m not holding onto much hope that you’ll conquer that compulsion anytime soon. [emoji6]

As I have stated numerous times, I have much less intimate interaction with my waste using the composting head as I did with either a holding tank system or using a lectrasan. I would also guess those with holding tanks illegally discharge much more than they would admit.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

LOL, yes many of us prefer to not handle our own waste and I hope you’re not surprised by that. Some kinds of intimacy on a boat are quite wonderful, and others are best avoided to the maximum extent possible. Dealing with human waste up close and personal falls clearly into the latter category. As far as I’m concerned, flush and forget is the ideal situation and is pretty easy to achieve something pretty close to that when you have an unlimited supply of water and a holding tank or type 1 device onboard.

The thing is that, while I don’t want one on my boat, I have no problem with you having yours and responsibly dumping it in the open ocean where it won’t affect anyone else. So, since that’s how you handle it, and nobody else has any exposure to it, it’s none of anybody else’s business, and of course that includes me. My problem is with the suggestion that the product is harmless and almost undetectable when it’s brought ashore because that’s only true in advertising literature and under ideal conditions with conscientious operators. I don’t like the idea of cruisers bringing their partially dried out feces ashore and leaving it in garbage repositories that others will unknowingly get very close to, and that includes both public trash cans and dumpsters. Yes, others put some pretty nasty stuff in dumpsters but not usually things like human waste that can contain nasty viruses snd bacteria that can be spread by flies, and just because some of that is currently going on, more is not better! Unfortunately most cruisers away from their home port don’t have the necessary transportation to take their waste to a proper dump site, so unless they dump it at sea, I think it would be better for everyone else if they had a traditional system that could be pumped out at the dock or easily dumped at sea without any of those “intimate” interactions with it that you seem to have become accustomed to.

Nobody is forcing you to argue any points over and over so if you’re tired of it….. But looking at your total post count, I’m not holding onto much hope that you’ll conquer that compulsion anytime soon. [emoji6]

I only respond when people post false or misleading comments...

First off, you don't have to "handle" your waste. Not unless you consider carrying a couple of containers "handling."

Secondly, your characterization of the end product shows you have no experience, and are just making things up. The end product of a month of use is like a rich, semi-dry soil. It's in no way offensive. It's way less nasty than all that liquid effluent you produce in a holding tank. And yes, holding tanks are fine when it all works, but the stories of tank leaks or toilet problems, or other offensive smells and issues are endless here on CF. Compare that to how many problems compost head users report, and you'll begin to understand why this is just a better way to deal with your waste.

I agree, it is not compost. I've never said otherwise. I know of no one who has made this claim. Straw man. One thing is certain; the end product t is waaaay less offensive and dangerous than a lot of other crap that goes into a marina trash dumpster.

And your perceived risk to others is equally made up. If there was any real threat it would have shown up long ago given the volume of diapers and hygiene material that goes into the waste stream. Name one case of a disease from any of it, over the nearly 100 years of disposable diapers. Name ONE.

I get it... "you don't like the idea." Many people don't like the idea that you dump your holding tank inside the 3nm limit either. They think it is wrong and disgusting. I guess you better stop. (I don't think it's wrong).

And I too have no doubt you'll respond here. No one is forcing you, but I'm sure you'll keep it up .

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

... As far as I’m concerned, flush and forget is the ideal situation and is pretty easy to achieve something pretty close to that when you have an unlimited supply of water and a holding tank or type 1 device onboard.... [emoji6]

One of the key areas in this discussion has been Annapolis harbor. As of 5-11-2021 it is a no discharge zone, so no type 1s. Only holding tank or dry. (the 3-mile limit is a 2-3 day sail away). There is a pump-out boat and numerous pump stations.


Pump-outs don't work in the winter. They freeze and are closed for ~ 4-5 months. Same with the pump-out boat. So no legal winter solution for holding tank systems, and type 1s need to move out into the main bay and be very careful re. winterization.



This discussion does not have one answer. I'm not pitching one answer.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thinwater

One of the key areas in this discussion has been Annapolis harbor. As of 5-11-2021 it is a no discharge zone, so no type 1s. Only holding tank or dry. (the 3-mile limit is a 2-3 day sail away). There is a pump-out boat and numerous pump stations.

Depending on the boat and the weather, the three mile limit is 20 to 22 hours away.

In winter time there is a weekly pumpout by truck at City Dock.

I spent two winters on City Dock.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Depending on the boat and the weather, the three mile limit is 20 to 22 hours away.

In winter time there is a weekly pumpout by truck at City Dock.

I spent two winters on City Dock.

Obviously.

A 44 hour round trip in average winter weather to MT a tank is a comical, ridiculous non-starter. You know that. More commonly, it is long 2 day trip. 3-4 days if you go south. Assuming parts are not blocked by floe ice, which they may be. I assume you were agreeing that is impractical.

The city dock is one of few places winter pump outs reliably happen.

I sail all year from Deale, MD, for 40 years. Many trips around the DELMARVA. I know the drill.

[seandepagnier]

Has anyone discussed sun-drying then incineration to ash?

[RaymondR]

The three mile limit thing is a conscience salve, you're still dumping raw sewage into the environment even if it is out of the local legal jurisdiction.

I have pondered deeply over the years on the morality of putting sewage into the environment and have decided that there are far more immoral things going on with municipal sewage than 1,000 of me could commit by macerating and dumping and being careful about not dumping in places with restricted water flows, oncoming/outgoing tides in river mouths, etc. There are masses of non biodegradable and contaminating chemicals in municipal sewage including micro plastics from synthetic material breakdown in washing machine effluents, pharma residuals, toilet cleaning chemicals, chlorine compound chemicals, etc, etc, etc.

After considering on board treatment units, holding and dumping offshore and the composting toilets, which require me also to dump residues and probably in plastic bags I settled on replacing the lump pumper toilets the boat came with with electric macerating units and she goes strait over the side unless I am near aquaculture installations or swimming beaches (The places I regularly cruise are saurian or shark infested and I am doing a public service in discouraging swimming there anyway)

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by smj

So we throw diapers in the toilet?

Nope, it's just that people who don't like desiccating toilets (more commonly known as composting toilets) and have such an aversion to responsible owners putting double bagged human waste in the dumpsters apparently don't consider babies, or women to be "human" because I haven't heard of ANY of these people complaining about putting diapers and/or tampons/pads in the trash. Wonder why that is???