Where do you dump?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

That’s only part of what it says and I hope that by ending where you did doesn’t mean you are trying to suggest that feces is fully decomposed just 6-8 hours after being “deposited” into the container.

I'm not suggesting anything beyond your hyperbole is argumentative and I'll informed.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I'm not suggesting anything beyond your hyperbole is argumentative and I'll informed.

My “hyperbole” is quoted exactly from the manufacturers website under “Disposal!” Read the whole thing.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

My “hyperbole” is quoted exactly from the manufacturers website under “Disposal!” Read the whole thing.

I am always suspicious of posts that don't provide citations and merely state "go read blah-blah if you don't believe me." Often, the poster parses in a disingenuous manner to support a premise.

I provided the link and the full cut/paste of the text so anyone can read and make their own interpretation. To my eyes, the text did not say what you said it did if you read the full paragraph.

Peter

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

Let's not ignore the direct possibility, that in the near future, all offshore discharges of sewage could be rendered illegal. That all associated thru-hulls retendered inoperable or eliminated entirely. Think about the impact on your vessel during an extended offshore jaunt.

I think that's a pretty remote possibility. I am not worried about it.

Remember, each country can only control what happens within a certain distance from it's borders.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Question - for those who think a bag of dessicated poop somehow turns a dumpster into a Super Fund Site, .........

How can you so completely misread a couple of posts? Is English not your first language?

Nobody, and I mean nobody posted that are anything close to that.

[senormechanico]

Where's the toilet lady when you need her?
Like me, she's a fan of the ElectroScan, and not a fan of NDZ laws passed by politicians looking for uninformed votes.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You have not quoted the NH instructions correctly. They state that full time users should wait at least 5-6 hours before dumping the waste. As has already been pointed out, you apparently have zero experience with C-Heads given your statements.

Here is the full text from their website

https://natureshead.net/user_guide/

"Full-time use does not allow enough time for the solid wastes to compost. The most recent waste, although mixed with the already composted material, will not be decomposed. This also means that the fecal bacteria (present in fresh human wastes) may still be present. We recommend taking precautions such as the use of gloves if you may come into contact with waste material. It is advisable that you delay emptying the solid waste for 6-8 hours after the last use"

I guarantee you (or anyone) that 6-8 hours will not turn fresh poop into compost.

6-8 months would be more like it, but only if it is turned on a regular basis and is allowed to heat up to 160 degrees for an extended period. Even then, it should be handled with care because it can still contain pathogens.

There is a commercial fertilizer, "Milorganite" that is made from treated city sewage and with all the time and equipment they have to make this relatively safe, they still insist that care be taken with it and that it is never to be used on fruits or vegetables for human consumption.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by smj

So after reading part of your blog I see you tie up in marinas every night and eat most meals out. Does this mean that if one sits on the hook and cooks most of their own meals they are less civilized than you? .......... .

If that's what you got from my posts, I would say you have a very serious reading comprehension deficiency.

I will try to simplify it to this:

In my opinion, using a conventional toilet and flushing afterwards seems more civilized than carrying jugs of pee and bags of poop to shore and dumping them down a drain or into a dumpster.

I hope this is easier to understand.

[Mike OReilly]

As usual, there's a lot of silly hyperbole and uninformed opinion around these heads. It's OK if you don't like them. No one is forcing anyone to use one, but please don't make up false narratives or claims about them. They work really well, do not pose a safety concern, and have numerous advantages over other head systems. They also have some disadvantages, and are specifically suited for smallish boats with smallish crews (two to three, full time).

If you prefer a wet sewage system, then by all means use them. They can work fine. They too have advantages and disadvantages. And then there are the various treatment and incinerator systems which also look very interesting. They don't seem well suited to smallish sailboats, but for those with more space and more power, they might be a superior option.

If anyone is actually interested in discussing the pros and cons of composting heads, there are numerous threads on the topic. I'd rather the discussion carried on over there, but as the song goes, "you don't always get what you want."

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rwidman

How can you so completely misread a couple of posts? Is English not your first language?



Nobody, and I mean nobody posted that are anything close to that.

A number of people said that adding a bag of dessicated poop to a dumpster could be harmful to garbage handlers and poor people who dumpster dive. As if a dumpster without such refuse was otherwise safe. "Super Fund Site" may be hyperbole, but sentiment is not.

If you don't like C-Heads, don't own one. I'm guessing the loud voices screaming about toxic waste in dumpsters wouldn't own one even if they were convinced C-Heads were safe and responsible. Some folks don't like them. Why they need to manufacture specious arguments is ridiculous.

Peter

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As usual, there's a lot of silly hyperbole and uninformed opinion around these heads. It's OK if you don't like them. No one is forcing anyone to use one, but please don't make up false narratives or claims about them. They work really well, do not pose a safety concern, and have numerous advantages over other head systems. They also have some disadvantages, and are specifically suited for smallish boats with smallish crews (two to three, full time).

For me personally there is a certain ick factor. I have done my best to set that aside in this discussion. If that has crept through in my contributions I apologize.

Objectively as you point out market penetration is increasing. Apparently as my home base of Annapolis indicates municipalities are reacting to the behaviors of owners/users with increased regulation. Noting that is not a judgment. It's an observation.

My observation is that some of the poll votes that claim to be legal users that reflect users of compost toilets who dispose of waste in dumpsters are in some places actually illegal and in some marinas in violation of the slip holders contract. It doesn't even matter if the rules are stupid. It's either allowed or not allowed. I recall reports of a test Raritan did here on Chesapeake bay that showed the output from a Lectra/San was cleaner (lower bacteria count) than the input. That makes NDZs pretty silly doesn't it? They're still the law.

When our Harbormaster gets back from her holiday on Wednesday I'll engage again and see what she knows about regulation in other places. I suspect not much. Annapolis government is, in my opinion, a real amateur hour and they make up pretty much everything from scratch without doing research. Still, I will ask and report back.

I suspect, as more and more composting toilets are purchased and installed, you'll see more and more regulation. Whether based on science-founded health concerns or ick-factor really doesn't matter. The law is the law.

[Auspicious]

Two "what abouts" have been raised.

Here is an interesting paper from 1988 https://p2infohouse.org/ref/29/28817.pdf that shows a startling 2% of all municipal solid waste is diapers. 3.5% to 4.5% of residential waste. I was startled until I reflected on the impact an 8 lb cat has had on our waste stream (it took my wife 12 years to talk me into a cat). The connection between kitty litter and composting toilets is not lost on me. Note the paper reflects on public health concerns from diapers.

A 2016 blog post about feminine hygiene products focuses on the environmental impact vice health. https://digital.hbs.edu/platform-rct...iene-products/ Interesting that a comment immediately draws the connection to diapers.

I think it is reasonable to draw a connection to conventional sewage treatment plants that overflow when it rains that do not get addressed but NDZs get approved for much less significant problems. We can anticipate regulation focused on composting toilets while professionals and regulators continue to struggle with diapers and feminine hygiene products. They will go after the low hanging fruit.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If that's what you got from my posts, I would say you have a very serious reading comprehension deficiency.



I will try to simplify it to this:



In my opinion, using a conventional toilet and flushing afterwards seems more civilized than carrying jugs of pee and bags of poop to shore and dumping them down a drain or into a dumpster.



I hope this is easier to understand.

No reading comprehension deficiency here. What you consider to be civilized I consider to be laziness.
I’m hoping you understand that. If not let me know and I’ll try to explain in a simpler manner, if there is one.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

For me personally there is a certain ick factor. I have done my best to set that aside in this discussion. If that has crept through in my contributions I apologize.

No... I detected no ick-driven comments from you Dave. I was referencing other posters. I always find your contributions reasonable, thoughtful and civil. Happy to discuss anything with you, even when we disagree .

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Objectively as you point out market penetration is increasing. Apparently as my home base of Annapolis indicates municipalities are reacting to the behaviors of owners/users with increased regulation. Noting that is not a judgment. It's an observation.

As far as I know, Annapolis is the only location in North America which has regulated their use. I have looked and found none. I think Thin has also done some research on the topic.

Of course now Thin has found this second one. I assume these kinds of reactions will continue as the popularity of these heads increase. This will carry on, likely until someone realizes it's better to set up a collection system than to try and legislate behaviour that people find reasonable (at least the ones using composers ).

Originally Posted by Auspicious

My observation is that some of the poll votes that claim to be legal users that reflect users of compost toilets who dispose of waste in dumpsters are in some places actually illegal and in some marinas in violation of the slip holders contract.

Could be... I don't take the poll overly seriously, although it does show some sort of indication. But for the record, I voted in the "I dump where I think it’s OK" category. That's because I dump my urine bottle where I think it's OK, so technically I'm breaking the 3nm law. As I said, it's been exceedingly rare that I've had to use a dumpster for my main bin, but that's mainly because I cruise in remote areas. Heck, there just aren't dumpsters where I spend most my time .

Originally Posted by Auspicious

When our Harbormaster gets back from her holiday on Wednesday I'll engage again and see what she knows about regulation in other places. I suspect not much. Annapolis government is, in my opinion, a real amateur hour and they make up pretty much everything from scratch without doing research. Still, I will ask and report back.

This will be an interesting discussion. I hope you can report back on what you learn (if anything).

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I suspect, as more and more composting toilets are purchased and installed, you'll see more and more regulation. Whether based on science-founded health concerns or ick-factor really doesn't matter. The law is the law.

Yup, the law is the law, and it doesn't always make sense (scientifically or even from a common-sense perspective). My prediction is that sense will eventually prevail, and we will see collection systems installed, just as we saw pump out stations set up.

But this may take a while. In the meantime, rules that people believe are silly or nonsensical will be circumvented, just as they already are around the 3nm limit, speed limits, and a host of other examples.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I am always suspicious of posts that don't provide citations and merely state "go read blah-blah if you don't believe me." Often, the poster parses in a disingenuous manner to support a premise.

I provided the link and the full cut/paste of the text so anyone can read and make their own interpretation. To my eyes, the text did not say what you said it did if you read the full paragraph.

Peter

Then to allay your suspicions, here’s the whole Disposal section from Natures Head, and if you read the whole thing you’ll note that it says just what I said it did earlier, no parsing involved.

Disposal
The recommended procedure for disposing of the contents of the solid waste tank is placing it in a proper composting bin to allow it to fully decompose. When traveling in a boat or RV, this may not be practical. The contents of the solid waste tank may be safely placed into a conventional dumpster if it has been allowed to compost fully. When fully composted, the solid wastes may be used to fertilize non-ingestible plantings. Placing human waste compost on edible plants or vegetables is not recommended.

Full-time users have some special circumstances to deal with. Full-time use does not allow enough time for the solid wastes to compost. The most recent waste, although mixed with the already composted material, will not be decomposed. This also means that the fecal bacteria (present in fresh human wastes) may still be present. We recommend taking precautions such as the use of gloves if you may come into contact with waste material. It is advisable that you delay emptying the solid waste for 6-8 hours after the last use.

Another method for dealing with non-composted wastes (if space allows) is to purchase the Extra Base option and swap out the bases. The extra base comes complete with all the necessary hardware, agitator, and bottle holder. It also comes with a vented lid so the contents can be set aside and allowed to compost. A storage bin utilizing the trash bag method of emptying, placing the bag into a small plastic bucket, ventilating the lid, then allow it to finish composting may be constructed. In a cabin setting, contents could be emptied into a traditional compost bin and allowed to finish there. Solids that have not fully composted for at least a year are not suitable for use on ingestible plants.