Where do you dump?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thinwater

We're not asking is the stuff clean, we're asking if it is appropriate in a dumpster. An equivalent question is to ask "what is acceptable in the sewer," which has been well defined. The answer is "pretty nasty," and yes, treatment plant workers have contact with it every day. I'm guessing not a single person on this thread has experience in the sewage treatment industry (I do--PE ChemE). There are hygiene issues and you deal with them.

I'm an odd duck. Tours of water treatment, waste treatment, hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plants, .... *grin*

Not disagreeing with you. Adding that many people simply don't pay attention to infrastructure. Electricity is "green" because it comes out of the wall. Solar is "green" because you don't see the horrors of mining, manufacturing, and disposal. Add a disturbing amount of shortsightedness and even stupidity. You may have seen the letter to editor in the local Annapolis paper some years ago objecting to a culling deer hunt that included "people should buy their meat at the grocery store so no animals are hurt." *sigh*

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I think that's a pretty remote possibility. I am not worried about it.

Remember, each country can only control what happens within a certain distance from it's borders.

Remember, each country can force owners to render their sewage thru hull inoperable.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Perfect! The end product of my cycle looks AND smells like soil. There is ZERO smell or look of feces or other offensive matters. You can put your nose right up to it if you like. It perfectly meets your requirements -- which is what those of us who have actual experience with these heads have saying.

There. Happy? All good?

You’ve been saying it alright and if it were true we would be happy, all good, etc, but if you’ve been using it regularly right up to the present date I hope you’ll understand when I say our definitions of “soil” must be very different so I’ll take a pass on your offer of a sniff test. Even the manufacturer of your head agrees with me and I’ve posted the info for you to read so I don’t know who you think you’re fooling when you claim it’s just “soil” after you last added fresh poop to it less than a day ago. If you have two of these heads onboard that you alternate using, or have the extra container that you keep onboard until it’s fully decomposed than we are indeed all good. But as long as you’re trying to pretend that fresh poop mixed in with composted poop is the same as soil, you will continue to be in disagreement with the experts at Natures Head and myself.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

Remember, each country can force owners to render their sewage thru hull inoperable.

And I can poop in a bucked and dump it overboard at night.

[jtsailjt]

For all those who think putting fresh poop in a dumpster is ok, why do you think Natures Head, a company that’s trying to make their product sound as appealing and convenient as possible so they can sell as many as possible, specifies that only fully composted material should go in a dumpster and if the head has been in regular use it should go in a proper composting bin to finish decomposing? Could it be that they know what they’re talking about and you’re missing something?

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

You’ve been saying it alright and if it were true we would be happy, all good, etc, but if you’ve been using it regularly right up to the present date I hope you’ll understand when I say our definitions of “soil” must be very different so I’ll take a pass on your offer of a sniff test. Even the manufacturer of your head agrees with me and I’ve posted the info for you to read so I don’t know who you think you’re fooling when you claim it’s just “soil” after you last added fresh poop to it less than a day ago. If you have two of these heads onboard that you alternate using, or have the extra container that you keep onboard until it’s fully decomposed than we are indeed all good. But as long as you’re trying to pretend that fresh poop mixed in with composted poop is the same as soil, you will continue to be in disagreement with the experts at Natures Head and myself.

Just inject a bit of levity

night soil [noun]: human excrement collected and used as fertilizer.

[thinwater]

The question is what is "safe enough." Sewers legally accept infectious waste and even hazardous waste within certain industrial permits. Dumpsters legally accept nappies, bathroom waste, household infectious waste, and household sharps (needles). Dog and cat waste, which is a great many households. This is normal and legal. There is no requirement or necessity to restrict dumpster waste to stuff you can safely wallow in. That is not the measure of acceptable practice.


I was hoping for more discussion of options, perhaps things I had not thought of. Bag specs (I'm guessing the trouble makers use something lame and thin, unlike WAG bags, which are quite tough). Adding a bunch of lime or ash on the last mix. Transport options.


As for personal preference, that is personal.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Just inject a bit of levity



night soil [noun]: human excrement collected and used as fertilizer.

LOL his offer of a sniff test brought back memories of farting contests back in 4th grade with each of us arguing that ours smelled best!

But none of us think we leave the bathroom as smelly as the person who enters just as we are leaving thinks it is so I suspect that he honestly thinks that through some miracle his poop isn’t poop anymore, with all of its well known characteristics, after less than a day in his magical box with a stirrer.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

For all those who think putting fresh poop in a dumpster is ok, why do you think Natures Head, a company that’s trying to make their product sound as appealing and convenient as possible so they can sell as many as possible, specifies that only fully composted material should go in a dumpster and if the head has been in regular use it should go in a proper composting bin to finish decomposing? Could it be that they know what they’re talking about and you’re missing something?

For the umpteenth time, you have misquoted their literature horribly. At worst, their lawyers suggested some CYOA language.

You're just being argumentative. Not sure what ax you're grinding, but I doubt you give a poop about what goes into a dumpster and endless repetition about how bagged dried poop in a dumpster somehow converts it from acceptably sanitary to toxic/hazardous waste (thus the Super Fund moniker)

Peter

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rwidman

We stayed at a marina in Maryland (USA) for several days and got to know a young couple on a small sailboat in the next slip over. My wife had noticed the girl carrying a container back and forth and eventually asked her about it.

She said it was their "pee container".

Yep, they had taken out a perfectly good marine toilet and holding tank and installed a contraption that required them to carry the jug of urine ashore at least daily and empty it into the toilet in the bathhouse.

Meanwhile, we just peed (and pooped) in our marine head and eventually had it pumped out and eventually treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility.

So a small boat with say a 5-10gal tank...would require the boat be taken over to the pump out pretty much daily...

Or they can walk the pee tank up once a day. (Our's was good for 2-3 days).

The second option seems a lot more convenient.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For the umpteenth time, you have misquoted their literature horribly. At worst, their lawyers suggested some CYOA language.

You're just being argumentative. Not sure what ax you're grinding, but I doubt you give a poop about what goes into a dumpster and endless repetition about how bagged dried poop in a dumpster somehow converts it from acceptably sanitary to toxic/hazardous waste (thus the Super Fund moniker)

Peter

I really don’t know who you’re trying to fool because I copy/pasted their whole section on Disposal and have only repeated just what it says. Anyone can read it for themself. You may not like what it says but I didn’t make it up.

And once again, just as both the Natures Head website states, and common sense tells us, if the unit has been in regular usage just prior to being emptied, it’s NOT “bagged, dried, poop” and that’s the root of the problem I have with these units on boats.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The question is what is "safe enough." Sewers legally accept infectious waste and even hazardous waste within certain industrial permits. Dumpsters legally accept nappies, bathroom waste, household infectious waste, and household sharps (needles). Dog and cat waste, which is a great many households. This is normal and legal. There is no requirement or necessity to restrict dumpster waste to stuff you can safely wallow in. That is not the measure of acceptable practice.


I was hoping for more discussion of options, perhaps things I had not thought of. Bag specs (I'm guessing the trouble makers use something lame and thin, unlike WAG bags, which are quite tough). Adding a bunch of lime or ash on the last mix. Transport options.


As for personal preference, that is personal.

Back when we had our Natures Head, it was simple. We picked up some extra heavy duty large bags. You slipped them over the top of the bin and then flipped the bin over...never had to come into contact.

It wasn't available at the time but the C-head solves the issue using 5 gal buckets...you simply swap out the bucket, let the full one sit if you don't have a convenient disposal location...so the freshness issue goes away. After a couple weeks of composting, it may not be fully done but far better than when you have to repair your liquid sewage system.

As you suggest, if people want to dumpster dive, they will be in contact with plenty of nasty materials.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It wasn't available at the time but the C-head solves the issue using 5 gal buckets...you simply swap out the bucket, let the full one sit if you don't have a convenient disposal location...so the freshness issue goes away. After a couple weeks of composting, it may not be fully done but far better than when you have to repair your liquid sewage system.
.

That sounds like a good solution to have 2 separate containers and let it continue to compost for a couple of weeks after it’s removed from the head so by the time the waste is put in the dumpster it’s much closer to “soil” than it was the day after someone added fresh poop to it. I don’t know how long it takes before all the bacteria dies off but at least by a couple of weeks it would be a lot less icky and less full of bacteria than when it was first removed from the head. Also, if there was a second container aboard, and sometime in the first week or so you found yourself sailing on the open ocean, you could save yourself the trip to the dumpster altogether and just dump it overboard where it wouldn’t do anyone any harm.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

You’ve been saying it alright and if it were true we would be happy, all good, etc, but if you’ve been using it regularly right up to the present date I hope you’ll understand when I say our definitions of “soil” must be very different so I’ll take a pass on your offer of a sniff test.

It's amusing how you keep twisting yourself up as a pretzel to avoid admitting you are wrong. I never said it is soil, I said exactly what I said:

The end product of my cycle looks AND smells like soil. There is ZERO smell or look of feces or other offensive matters.

This was in direct response to the criteria YOU laid out:

...unless it’s truly desiccated so it’s no longer identifiable as ever having been poop, either visually or by smell.

It is exactly that. But now you resort to calling me a liar. I guess I can do the same with all your reports of how difficult it is to follow the law regarding the 3nm limit .

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Even the manufacturer of your head agrees with me and I’ve posted the info for you to read so I don’t know who you think you’re fooling when you claim it’s just “soil” after you last added fresh poop to it less than a day ago.

Again, you are just lying, or purposely mischaracterizing the statements. I did not claim it is soil. Read it again... And you are selectively reading Nature's Head comments. Here is the pertinent paragraph (again). They are stating the same fact I've also stated, over and over:

Full-time users have some special circumstances to deal with. Full-time use does not allow enough time for the solid wastes to compost. The most recent waste, although mixed with the already composted material, will not be decomposed. This also means that the fecal bacteria (present in fresh human wastes) may still be present. We recommend taking precautions such as the use of gloves if you may come into contact with waste material. It is advisable that you delay emptying the solid waste for 6-8 hours after the last use.

No where do they say placing this in a garbage receptacle presents a danger to anyone. And I've challenged you (and everyone) to present one, just ONE, case where there has been any issues with all the fecal and other bodily fluids that are constantly dumped into our municipal systems.

Once again, all this demonstrates is that you have strongly held opinions about something you know nothing about.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's amusing how you keep twisting yourself up as a pretzel to avoid admitting you are wrong. I never said it is soil, I said exactly what I said:

This was in direct response to the criteria YOU laid out:

It is exactly that. But now you resort to calling me a liar. I guess I can do the same with all your reports of how difficult it is to follow the law regarding the 3nm limit .



Again, you are just lying, or purposely mischaracterizing the statements. I did not claim it is soil. Read it again... And you are selectively reading Nature's Head comments. Here is the pertinent paragraph (again). They are stating the same fact I've also stated, over and over:

No where do they say placing this in a garbage receptacle presents a danger to anyone. And I've challenged you (and everyone) to present one, just ONE, case where there has been any issues with all the fecal and other bodily fluids that are constantly dumped into our municipal systems.

Once again, all this demonstrates is that you have strongly held opinions about something you know nothing about.

You posted only part of the Disposal instruction, leaving out the part of it where they say it is ok to put completely composted product in dumpsters, but if it contains fresh material it should go in a proper compost bin to finish decomposing. They clearly make the distinction between fully composted and that which contains fresh material but you seem to be trying to blur that line for your own convenience. Just do what the manufacturer of your Natures Head tells you to do and I’ll have no problem with it.