Where do you dump?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

Most marinas have quite a vested interest in conventional pump-out systems.

Composters don't break down and need expensive repairs or yearly maintenance.

In SF Bay, pumpouts were required by regulation. They are viewed by marinas as a necessary evil. They take up valuable dock space and are not exactly maintenance free. If composters alleviated use or allowed removal pf pumpouts altogether, those marinas would jump for joy.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

In fairness, much more dilution one flush at a time than a urine tank all at once.

Many rules, regulations, and laws can be traced to a single incident. The "one bad apple" scenario. On the other hand some stem from special interest or other control freak. In the end it doesn't matter. The rules are the rules.

Agreed, but that's why I said, "Perhaps if the system is seriously under-sized, or in need of major repairs..." If this is a commercial system, a flush of a couple gallons of urine at one time should have no effect. If it does, then it's "seriously under-sized."

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

In fairness, much more dilution one flush at a time than a urine tank all at once.

Many rules, regulations, and laws can be traced to a single incident. The "one bad apple" scenario. On the other hand some stem from special interest or other control freak. In the end it doesn't matter. The rules are the rules.

Care to explain?

If a couple generate 1 gal of urine per day, what difference does it make if they put in 1/4gallon into a 1500gal septic tank 4 times per day instead of 1 gal once per day?

And assuming you had 50 boats in the marina dumping each day, unless they coordinate, they are distributing it across the day.

Honestly, there really isn't much of anything in urine to break down. Solids are a bigger concern as they do require breaking down in the septic system but even then, they don't break down in an hour or two, so it makes little difference on the concentration in the tank.

I don't think it's so much a bad apple as rules intended for commercial ships and land based treatment facilities applied without consideration of the differences on a small pleasure craft.

[AA3JY]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Care to explain?

If a couple generate 1 gal of urine per day, what difference does it make if they put in 1/4gallon into a 1500gal septic tank 4 times per day instead of 1 gal once per day?

And assuming you had 50 boats in the marina dumping each day, unless they coordinate, they are distributing it across the day.

Honestly, there really isn't much of anything in urine to break down. Solids are a bigger concern as they do require breaking down in the septic system but even then, they don't break down in an hour or two, so it makes little difference on the concentration in the tank.

I don't think it's so much a bad apple as rules intended for commercial ships and land based treatment facilities applied without consideration of the differences on a small pleasure craft.

Yep..same system where the mobile pump-out goes..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

In SF Bay, pumpouts were required by regulation. They are viewed by marinas as a necessary evil. They take up valuable dock space and are not exactly maintenance free. If composters alleviated use or allowed removal pf pumpouts altogether, those marinas would jump for joy.

What I would like to see, and what I predict will eventually start to happen, is having an organized collection system for the semi-composted end product of these heads. A lot of municipalities already have central systems for collecting compostable waste that usually includes animal waste, and a few also manage what is euphemistically called "biosolids." All we really need is a collection point at the marinas which can then be fed to these existing systems.

[rslifkin]

I think it's more a concern for people making a mess in the bathrooms than anything.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I think it's more a concern for people making a mess in the bathrooms than anything.

Guys never do that .

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

What I would like to see, and what I predict will eventually start to happen, is having an organized collection system for the semi-composted end product of these heads. A lot of municipalities already have central systems for collecting compostable waste that usually includes animal waste, and a few also manage what is euphemistically called "biosolids." All we really need is a collection point at the marinas which can then be fed to these existing systems.

Are composting systems even 1% of those on boats? I'd be surprised if it is. While composting has demonstrated popularity here, I doubt it will become ubiquitous, or even offered on new production boats.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Are composting systems even 1% of those on boats? I'd be surprised if it is. While composting has demonstrated popularity here, I doubt it will become ubiquitous, or even offered on new production boats.

CF and SN surveys consistently show compost head proportions to be in around 20%. I know this is heavily skewed and not accurate (for a lot of reasons), but it suggests the number is considerably above 1%.

And my biased sense is that the numbers are rising. Maybe it's time to run another survey.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

CF and SN surveys consistently show compost head proportions to be in around 20%. I know this is heavily skewed and not accurate (for a lot of reasons), but it suggests the number is considerably above 1%.



And my biased sense is that the numbers are rising. Maybe it's time to run another survey.

My bunch is its well under 1%. Only way to get even close to accurate estimate is talk to the three big manufacturers and get a sense of how many have been sold and a ratio of RV/van vs boat vs tiny house/off grid.

Interestingly, topic of compost occasionally comes up on TF. Adoption rate is likely much lower than sailors of course, but discussions tend to be much more civil with less vitriol than when it surfaces on CF. Go figure.

I totally get that some folks have a visceral reaction to compost (desiccating) heads. However as more owners experience more issues with head systems, I suppose it's impossible to deny the visceral reaction to working on holding tanks. Pick your poison.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

My bunch is its well under 1%. Only way to get even close to accurate estimate is talk to the three big manufacturers and get a sense of how many have been sold and a ratio of RV/van vs boat vs tiny house/off grid.

True... Like I say, in the three surveys I've run here and on SN over the years, the numbers are consistently and surprisingly higher than I'd expect. I don't believe it's close to 20%, but I think it's higher than most might think.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Interestingly, topic of compost occasionally comes up on TF. Adoption rate is likely much lower than sailors of course, but discussions tend to be much more civil with less vitriol than when it surfaces on CF. Go figure.

I totally get that some folks have a visceral reaction to compost (desiccating) heads. However as more owners experience more issues with head systems, I suppose it's impossible to deny the visceral reaction to working on holding tanks. Pick your poison.

TF = Trawlers Forum? But you're so right about the vitriolic nature of some of these discussions. I've never understood how some people get so ... worked up about the mere idea. I completely understand that it's not for everyone, but some people on CF (not so much on SN) seem to have a real hate-on for even the very concept.

[AA3JY]

When we where about to be boarded by the Park Rangers @ Dry Tortugas NP ..they asked to inspect our head. We replied sure come aboard but informed them that we don’t have a traditional head instead a composter.. They replied Great..carry-on and have a great day. If one visits Ft. Jefferson one will only find composters available to the general public…

[sailorboy1]

The City of Marathon/Boot Key has 226 moorings and pumps out boats weekly. Plus they pump out boats in the managed anchorage. If you have a composter you have to log emptying it with the office at least monthly. I would say in the last 5 years I have spent 18 months there and have only seen anyone empty their pee bottle into the waste station once.

If you really wanted to get an idea the easy way would be to ask a place like this. In real cruiser worlds it never has seemed to me many have a composter. Most cruisers I have met with one are on smaller boats, which makes sense given tankage.

CF and SN definitely are not representative of what is out cruising!

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The City of Marathon/Boot Key has 226 moorings and pumps out boats weekly. Plus they pump out boats in the managed anchorage. If you have a composter you have to log emptying it with the office at least monthly. I would say in the last 5 years I have spent 18 months there and have only seen anyone empty their pee bottle into the waste station once.



If you really wanted to get an idea the easy way would be to ask a place like this. In real cruiser worlds it never has seemed to me many have a composter. Most cruisers I have met with one are on smaller boats, which makes sense given tankage.



CF and SN definitely are not representative of what is out cruising!

Come by between 8:30 -9:00 pretty much every morning and you can see me dumping our urine jug! Actually there are quite a few people in Boot Key that have composters and regularly dump their urine in the waste station.

[laird]

Haven't things changed as the human race improves itself
In Roman times urine was taxed ,it was sold and used for industrial processes ,more recently in the UK it was used to break down Alum for the purpose of dying cloth

I can remember my dad digging a small pit ,then emptying the bowl from the dry toilet , there were no sewage mains in the wilds of Scotland

When I go hiking ,I carry a trowel ,dig a hole ,then fill it in afterwards making sure I'm well away from any water courses

Taking the contents of a compostable toilet and dumping it in a dustbin is unacceptable , dig a hole and bury it !