Where do you dump?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

You may not stay on a City of Annapolis for more than two weeks if you have a composting head and disposal of waste in public waste containers is explicitly illegal.

Not a typo - a dumbo. This is meant to be "City of Annapolis mooring" but I believe enforced in the Severn River, Spa Creek, and Back Creek anchorages as well.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just ignore him. It's how he operates.

He’s within spitting distance of me and I would be happy to show him our composting system and why we like it!

[Larry Florida]

1 mile plus outside the bay. A direct dump skip the tank.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by smj

Blah blah blah blah blah blah. This coming from someone who admittedly pumps directly overboard illegally.

100% of the time my heads flush into the holding tank, NEVER directly overboard so you couldn’t be any more wrong about that. Because the pumpout in the harbor where my boat is in the summer has been broken for going on 3 years, and because the 3 mile line is more than 20 miles away, I dump the holding tank (as do the hundreds of other boaters who visit this harbor or base themselves there each year) well away from the harbor but inside the 3 mile line.

Right now my boat is in a marina in Norfolk and I just pumped it out into a mobile tank they have available to boaters. When I asked to use it the kid getting it out let me know it wasn’t something he did very often. I wonder what the 100+ other boats in this marina are doing……maybe they’re all “holding it?”

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Pretty much the only sensible response to this unintelligible rant.

Maybe it’s a sign that you need to reconsider your position when you start endorsing blah blah blah over a factual statement that you apparently can’t even partially refute. Everything in my “rant” is true. The fact is, if you use it regularly, it’s not desiccated and it’s not composted and in my opinion fresh feces doesn’t belong in marina trash bins. I’m genuinely surprised anyone would disagree with that. But I guess if homeless people can crap on the sidewalk in LA, you can dump yours wherever you want to as well. Apparently we’ve sunk that far.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... and disposal of waste in public waste containers is explicitly illegal. Not defending the regulation just pointing it out.

Incidentally pet waste and diapers are supposed to be double-bagged before going into the waste stream here.

Please post the regulatory link so that we can review the explicit language. I believe disposal in public waste cans is prohibited (exact language from a memo, not a statute, and referencing small trash cans near the dinghy dock) but not in dumpsters.

Double bagging of waste is popular advise, but again, I have not seen that in a statute. It is also virtually never done in public places, in my experience (in household trash it is more common). Please post link. I would also agree that double bagging desiccating head waste is... obvious? This is also standard practice with WAG bag waste (the kits FEMA and others distribute include absorbent and double bags)? I am aware of a few very local restrictions on WAG bag waste, affecting only a few specific trash receptacles.

I'm not trying to argue. I would like to see the referenced language, as I have searched for it, including talking to the harbormaster. At that time it was a policy but had never been made law.

[thinwater]

It's a puzzle. What is better treatment?
* bury in a landfill?
* compost in backyard?
* treat ~ 90% in a POTW?
* treat through an on-board system?

* dump some distance from shore?


You could make an impassioned argument for or against any of these. They can all be done well or poorly.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Please post the regulatory link so that we can review the explicit language. I believe disposal in public waste cans is prohibited (exact language from a memo, not a statute, and referencing small trash cans near the dinghy dock) but not in dumpsters.


Double bagging is popular advise, but again, I have not seen that in a statute. Please post link.


I'm not trying to argue. I would like to see the language, as I have searched for it, including talking to the harbormaster. At that time it was a policy but had never been made law.

The limits on using moorings is from a personal email from the Annapolis Harbormaster (Beth, not staff) the last time this came up and I asked her. She cited Annapolis 15.06.090 but I didn't go read it. In September '21 she told me a more strict revision was going to the City Council but I haven't heard anything and haven't gone looking. I'm honestly not sure if the ordinance covers time on moorings, waste disposal in public containers, or both. I took her at her word.

Anne Arundel County link here https://www.aacounty.org/departments...imal-pet-waste but I have not drilled down to the underlying ordinance.

Anne Arundel County link here https://www.aacounty.org/departments...ed/human-waste but again I have not drilled down to the underlying ordinance.

Annapolis waste management disposal is contracted from AA County so the regulations in the City mirror the county.

I have a customer on City Dock probably through New Years so popping into the Harbormaster's office is easy if there is more detail you can't find from Google.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

The limits on using moorings is from a personal email from the Annapolis Harbormaster (Beth, not staff) the last time this came up and I asked her. She cited Annapolis 15.06.090 but I didn't go read it. In September '21 she told me a more strict revision was going to the City Council but I haven't heard anything and haven't gone looking. I'm honestly not sure if the ordinance covers time on moorings, waste disposal in public containers, or both. I took her at her word.

Anne Arundel County link here https://www.aacounty.org/departments...imal-pet-waste but I have not drilled down to the underlying ordinance.

Anne Arundel County link here https://www.aacounty.org/departments...ed/human-waste but again I have not drilled down to the underlying ordinance.

Annapolis waste management disposal is contracted from AA County so the regulations in the City mirror the county.

I have a customer on City Dock probably through New Years so popping into the Harbormaster's office is easy if there is more detail you can't find from Google.

This part we knew.

15.06.090 - Vessel toilets.







A.
A person may not operate the toilet fixtures of a vessel within City waters at any time so as to cause or permit to pass or be discharged into City waters any sewage or other waste matter or contaminate of any kind which does not meet State, County, and Federal requirements for water quality discharged by such devices. A person may not operate incinerating toilets in a vessel within City waters at any time.
B.
A person who anchors a vessel in City waters for more than two days shall pump out the vessel's holding tank at regular intervals, as determined by the Harbormaster. The person shall present evidence of such pumping to the Harbormaster.
(Ord. O-31-02 § 1 (part))
(Ord. No. O-41-08, § I, 5-11-2009; Ord. No. O-8-20, § I, 7-13-2020)



Yup. Pet waste and diapers must be double bagged. Could be a hauler rule. Hardly matters, because I don't think anyone disagrees. But they are not in public trash cans. This too, we can agree on.


---


Thanks for posting what you knew. That is the same information I got from Beth.


There are two levers at work here. One, they are waste disposal cans. Waste includes many unsanitary things. Two, it is impractical to ban or overly regulate small amounts of waste. The public will argue that that is what waste disposal services are for. The waste goes to a sanitary landfill. So there is no reason to expect or need change. All that is needed is for users to be practical in their disposal practices. Not in small waste cans. Double bag with good bags. Simple.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There are two levers at work here.

I would add two additional levers.

The public waste bins around City Dock and the private bins in marinas are emptied by hand. Dumpsters around here are generally locked.

Rules, regulations, ordinances, and law do not necessarily have to make sense to be in place. They are what they are and the rules are the rules. In my opinion you don't get to pick and choose which to abide by and which you are allowed to ignore.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Your constant mischaracterization of what exactly the “product” of your turd collector consists of is what is most tiresome of all. It’s not composted and if you and your wife used it every day for the past week, it’s not even close to desiccated. It’s a bundle of fresh feces mixed with some older, partially desiccated feces along with the bulking material you’ve added to it and I don’t think it belongs in a marinas trash bin any more than I think it’s OK to pump overboard in that marina. You’ve said that you usually dump yours offshore and I think that’s fine but why do you feel like you have to defend others who put their feces in public trash bins when you don’t even do that yourself? I have no problem with these type heads if people who have them would just follow the manufacturers recommendations (which I’ve copied/pasted into these discussions) regarding how the material should be disposed of, but you don’t. Instead, you rationalize that it’s the same as a diaper (nobody deposits 20 lbs of feces from diapers into one public trash bin) or you claim that its about the same as other trash (disregarding pathogens in human feces) that people dispose of or you try to discredit what the manufacturers recommend as being just CYA that they don’t actually mean, or you remind us that it’s not illegal to put your feces in a public trash bin. It’s not illegal but it IS disgusting if your little package of feces is pierced by something sharp thrown in on top of it, just as it’s equally disgusting for a swimmer in a marina where another boater is dumping his holding tank. I think all boaters owe it to fellow boaters as well as to land based neighbors to dispose of their feces in a way that others aren’t exposed to either the odor or the material itself and that’s why most boaters have holding tanks, so they can dump their waste far enough away from others so nobody is aware or offended by it, or it can be pumped into a proper septic system or sewage treatment facility via a pumpout station. The local marina trash bin may be a convenient place to dispose of feces, but it’s not where the manufacturer of your head says it belongs or where common courtesy dictates that it belongs.

Your "proper septic system or sewage treatment plants" are the main reason why so many Coastal cities around the US, constantly have issues with human fecal matter in their local bodies of water. Out of sight, out of mind, huh?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Rules, regulations, ordinances, and law do not necessarily have to make sense to be in place. They are what they are and the rules are the rules. In my opinion you don't get to pick and choose which to abide by and which you are allowed to ignore.

Actually, most people ignore some rules much of the time. From driving to taxes, most of us don't follow the letter of the law all the time. If you are one of the perfect followers, the data suggests you are very much the outlier.

So, it's not nearly as cut & dry as you suggest Aus. We pick and choose all the time. And laws (and regs) that people find irrational, arbitrary or unnecessary are especially prone to being ignored. It's why so many people ignore the 3-mile limit law when dumping their effluent tanks. Most of us knows this is not necessary most of the time.

[AA3JY]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Please post the regulatory link so that we can review the explicit language. I believe disposal in public waste cans is prohibited (exact language from a memo, not a statute, and referencing small trash cans near the dinghy dock) but not in dumpsters.

Double bagging of waste is popular advise, but again, I have not seen that in a statute. It is also virtually never done in public places, in my experience (in household trash it is more common). Please post link. I would also agree that double bagging desiccating head waste is... obvious? This is also standard practice with WAG bag waste (the kits FEMA and others distribute include absorbent and double bags)? I am aware of a few very local restrictions on WAG bag waste, affecting only a few specific trash receptacles.

I'm not trying to argue. I would like to see the referenced language, as I have searched for it, including talking to the harbormaster. At that time it was a policy but had never been made law.

This whole Annapolis composter debate has been discussed ad nauseam back in Sept 2018..there has been no written policy, “rules” or laws preventing, or limiting vessels with on board composters other than someone’s hearsay of interpreted versions..and I’ll say again someone must be running a political agenda

[mvweebles]

BTW - here at the disposal instructions from Nature's Head website for full time users. They give other options such as having two bins, but this is their approved language. Personally, I'd worry more about germs from kitchen scraps such as chicken trimmings, but to each their own.

[I] We recommend taking precautions such as the use of gloves if you may come into contact with waste material. It is advisable that you delay emptying the solid waste for 6-8 hours after the last use. [\I]

[Tetepare]

Is composting suitable for weekenders? If you have to, or elect to, leave the boat for five days and the head is half full, will the boat have an odor upon return?