Where do you dump?

[SeaStory]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

So as I tally the scores, we have 41 (60%) in the obey-the-law category and 27 (40%) in the more legally questionable zone. Still not the vast majority that was claimed in the other thread.

It does seem to vary by location. Where it is easy, people obey the rules. Where the resources are scarce or the zone is far...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SeaStory

It does seem to vary by location. Where it is easy, people obey the rules. Where the resources are scarce or the zone is far...

Yes indeed, that is clearly part of the story.

Actually, this poll was prompted by a rather extensive discussion in another thread around the need for the 3nm limit for recreational boaters. People were in general agreement on your point, which is why many think it would be wise to reduce the limit for recreational boaters.

I'm darn impressed with my own government's approach, and very ashamed I didn't even know about it. Thanks again Dave!

[seandepagnier]

First of all, people with a plant-based diet produce waste less harmful to the environment. People who eat less food and have a BMI index indicating they are underweight (and do not poop every day) also produce less waste.

What if you mostly go on land and dig a small hole under trees then bury it?

Also want to mention that pump-out facilities are really bad for the environment. It takes a lot of energy to produce the infrastructure as well as energy and water to pump all the sewage. The worst part is, the waste gets wasted by being broken down with bacteria in anaerobic digestion where 2/3 of the energy is lost. For this reason it is bad to dump it in water, even off-shore (unless your diet mostly comes from the sea, you should return to the land what is taken from the land)

poo should be broken down with aerobic digestion as humanure. Consider the difference of burning wood to ash, vs charcoal vs buried wood as fertilizer. The less energy wasted in a fire makes more available to the plants that grow.

The industrial production of ammonia for fertilizer has about the same emissions as aviation. This should be completely eliminated. In many countries without industrial fertilizer dropping in the fields is a requirement for survival.

Every option listed is a bad one except perhaps "I dump where I think it’s OK" but only if this involves aerobic breakdown and composting. Only 28% of respondents choose the best option, and it is subjective so probably most of these dump their waste in the water which is not good either.

[senormechanico]

What about boats with ElectroScan installed?
It is a US Coast Guard approved MSD,meeting or greatly exceeding the secondary treatment plant numbers.

We were trying to be "environmentally friendly" and spent more than a thousand dollars US, but now we are "illegal" because of politicians which passed a law buying environmental wacko votes.


I guess you know where I stand...



Piffle !!

[C420sailor]

TIL humans are bad for the environment.

The only real solution is to stop shitting, it seems. Anyone got any 5200?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

What about boats with ElectroScan installed?
It is a US Coast Guard approved MSD,meeting or greatly exceeding the secondary treatment plant numbers.

That was what I did when I was cruising in U.S. waters.


This device kills off pathogens but I think there is no advantage in even somewhat open waters as the ocean kills them off anyway. The main reason I had it was to get the water cops off my back. Showing them the Lectra San control panel had an almost miraculous effect on the water cops -- they would smile and immediately leave.



In my opinion far more significant than this, is maceration. I'm surprised the rules don't cover maceration.

[RaymondR]

"In my opinion far more significant than this, is maceration. I'm surprised the rules don't cover maceration."



I vaguely recall that some decades ago the US EPA put more draconian rules on dumping sewage in inland saline waters before the US senate and was instructed to carry out trials on what provided the more practicable responses and found that mandating maceration was far more effective overall in maintaining water quality than attempting an overall ban of the practice of dumping.

[jmschmidt]

This ain't rocket science or 20 questions.

The law
Under federal law, it is illegal to dump raw, untreated sewage into navigable U.S. waters, including coastal waters within 3 miles of shore and inland waters (lakes, reservoirs, rivers, etc.). A No Discharge Zone (NDZ) takes this law a step further and prohibits the discharge of both treated and untreated sewage into a designated body of water.

A NDZ is created if a state determines that a body of water either:

Requires greater environmental protection and there are adequate pumpout facilities available.
Has particular environmental importance (e.g. sensitive areas such as shellfish beds or coral reefs).
Or has drinking water intake zones.
It's important to know the locations of any No Discharge Zones and pumpout stations in the areas where you are boating. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) provides a list of NDZs and pumpout facilities by state.

All boats in U.S. waters with permanently installed toilets are required by federal law to have a Marine Sanitation Device (MSD) onboard that either stores sewage until it can be transferred ashore, or treats sewage to reduce the coliform count to such low levels that discharged blackwater poses no public health hazard.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

This ain't rocket science or 20 questions.

No, more like social science .

[Mike OReilly]

OK, so just to keep the running tally, I calculate we have about 62% following the law, and about 38% taking liberties with how they dump. Interesting...

As someone mentioned, I'm sure behaviour is highly influenced by local conditions. Again, the point of the poll is to try and get some sense of the proportions. So my thanks to all that have participated.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

"In my opinion far more significant than this, is maceration. I'm surprised the rules don't cover maceration."



I vaguely recall that some decades ago the US EPA put more draconian rules on dumping sewage in inland saline waters before the US senate and was instructed to carry out trials on what provided the more practicable responses and found that mandating maceration was far more effective overall in maintaining water quality than attempting an overall ban of the practice of dumping.

I’ve seen chunks and floaties and shreds of toilet paper exiting Caribbean charter boats thru hulls and agree that it would be better if macerating heads had been used. But on my boat I always use the holding tank and have found that even though the pump I use to empty it is a diaphragm pump rather than a macerating pump, the effluent looks nothing like what I’ve seen exiting boats that use traditional marine heads and direct discharge. It just looks like brown water. After passing through the vacuflush diaphragm pump and then spending a day or two or more sitting in my holding tank, and then passing through another diaphragm pump, there is no sign of any solids or shreds of toilet paper. So if the intent is to break down the sewage to the point where it is no longer in solid form, there’s more than one way to accomplish that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I’ve seen chunks and floaties and shreds of toilet paper exiting Caribbean charter boats thru hulls and agree that it would be better if macerating heads had been used. But on my boat I always use the holding tank and have found that even though the pump I use to empty it is a diaphragm pump rather than a macerating pump, the effluent looks nothing like what I’ve seen exiting boats that use traditional marine heads and direct discharge. It just looks like brown water. After passing through the vacuflush diaphragm pump and then spending a day or two or more sitting in my holding tank, and then passing through another diaphragm pump, there is no sign of any solids or shreds of toilet paper. So if the intent is to break down the sewage to the point where it is no longer in solid form, there’s more than one way to accomplish that.

True, but holding tanks breed pathogens, and besides that, holding tanks concentrate waste. Concentration is bad. Breeding (rather than killing off) pathogens is bad. We put a lot (order or orders of magnitude?) less pathogens into the sea if we macerate and discharge immediately. And we disperse better like that. Storing waste up in holding tanks, only to dump it in more concentrated and pathogen-enhanced form, is only good if you really have no other choice because you are in some place (like a shellfish bed) which would really be harmed by your little direct discharge.

Direct discharge of fresh macerated waste is highly desirable. Provided of course you are not thereby fouling a shellfish bed or beach or anchorage.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

True, but holding tanks breed pathogens, and besides that, holding tanks concentrate waste. Concentration is bad

Direct discharge of fresh macerated waste is highly desirable. Provided of course you are not thereby fouling a shellfish bed or beach or anchorage.

Agree if discharge is the norm anyway. BUT please no paper. Keep the paper out and take it ashore or toss well to sea. Paper even in tiny shreds persists on the bottom for a very long time, covers corals and plants and is conspicuous to divers. No paper is also better for your head.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by lestersails

I like to think that sailors are overall less of a problem in this regard than the power boaters, but that could just be wishful thinking. I do think that there is a knowledge barrier of entry to sailing that is higher than motor boating, which could help.

I like to think that sailors are more of a problem as the majority of cruising vessels seem 42t and under so limited space and often, limited funds

Most powerboats capable of liveaboard and extended cruising have the funds to afford treatment plants and holding tanks and the space to fit them (Ours has 2 x saniloo and a 400 litre holding tank) and pump out while on passage at least a few miles from land

Of course the above is a generalisation

[Celestialsailor]

There should have been the possible answer...
"Always dump at the slip since my boat never goes out and the walk to the head is too far."