Which Watermaker To Choose

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Spectra's patent position is holding things back, mind you only for a period of time.

Do you know when the critical patent(s) will expire?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by mcarling

Do you know when the critical patent(s) will expire?

It looks like a 1995 patent is the primary one
Liquid treatment apparatus for providing a flow of pressurized liquid :: U.S. Patent Number 5,462,414 :: Justia Patents
There's also some litigation around it
Document 69 :: Permar v. Spectra Watermakers, Inc. :: 4:2009cv00972 :: California Northern District Court :: US Federal District Courts Cases :: Justia
1995 plus 20 years would make it 2015.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Paul L

1995 plus 20 years would make it 2015.

The patent issued in October, but the filing date was Jan 19, 1995, so it will expire Jan 19, 2015.

[jr_spyder]

For what it's worth I just received my Feb issue of Practical Sailor and they did a head to head comparison of a Spectra vs. a Racor Little Wonder. Haven't read it all yet. A lot of detail and education for a newbe like myself, assuming it's valid.

[wolfenzee]

Yes the unit I was talking about does use more power.....but for the $2500 savings over the same size Katedyn or Spectra unit I can find ways to generate more power and have change left over.
I wouldn't be able to afford a watermaker until after I install solar panels which will happen after I install a wind generator. Between the tow it will more than keep up with any water maker usage.

[Tellie]

If energy consumption is not a factor one wishes to consider, there are two used units on E-bay right now that would provide a few good parts to get started on a DIY watermaker.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jr_spyder

For what it's worth I just received my Feb issue of Practical Sailor and they did a head to head comparison of a Spectra vs. a Racor Little Wonder. Haven't read it all yet. A lot of detail and education for a newbe like myself, assuming it's valid.

And their conclusions and ratings?

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Tellie

If energy consumption is not a factor one wishes to consider, there are two used units on E-bay right now that would provide a few good parts to get started on a DIY watermaker.

Energy consumption is a factor but purchase and maintenance costs are more important. The system I was refering to costs aprox $2500 less than the equic=velent Katadyn, Spectra or Racor. If when I instal my ind/solar I take into consideration the higher power needs the upgrade would be about $500. As far as maintanence the membranes are 1/3-1/4 the price of the other. My water maker system would be higher draw, but then everything else on my boat is much lower draw. Wind and solar would be recharging the batteies when I am not useing the water maker anyway. I am not in a position to spend and extra couple thousand $ (actually double the cost of the unit) to save on power consumption.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Energy consumption is a factor but purchase and maintenance costs are more important. The system I was refering to costs aprox $2500 less than the equic=velent Katadyn, Spectra or Racor. If when I instal my ind/solar I take into consideration the higher power needs the upgrade would be about $500. As far as maintanence the membranes are 1/3-1/4 the price of the other. My water maker system would be higher draw, but then everything else on my boat is much lower draw. Wind and solar would be recharging the batteies when I am not useing the water maker anyway. I am not in a position to spend and extra couple thousand $ (actually double the cost of the unit) to save on power consumption.

Actually I meant that for any board member considering a DIY. With the pump, valves, gauge, flow meters, vessels, etc. shown, and for the right bid, one with a bit of thought could put together one even cheaper.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Energy consumption is a factor but purchase and maintenance costs are more important. The system I was refering to costs aprox $2500 less than the equic=velent Katadyn, Spectra or Racor. If when I instal my ind/solar I take into consideration the higher power needs the upgrade would be about $500. As far as maintanence the membranes are 1/3-1/4 the price of the other. My water maker system would be higher draw, but then everything else on my boat is much lower draw. Wind and solar would be recharging the batteies when I am not useing the water maker anyway. I am not in a position to spend and extra couple thousand $ (actually double the cost of the unit) to save on power consumption.

Wolfenzee, just make sure you do your energy budget carefully. Running a non energy recovery watermaker from wind/solar is difficult, particuarly on a 30foot boat.
If you are planning on running the main engine and or generator every day that will work OK and a non energy recovery watermaker will be fine.

If you are planning on running primarily from solar / wind (which your post implies) I would be surprised if you can make the energy budget work.

A watermaker that you have not got the power to run will not be bargain.

No offence intended, I am just trying to steer you the right direction from my impression (which may be wrong) of your requirements.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Wolfenzee, just make sure you do your energy budget carefully. Running a non energy recovery watermaker from wind/solar is difficult, particuarly on a 30foot boat.
If you are planning on running the main engine and or generator every day that will work OK and a non energy recovery watermaker will be fine.

If you are planning on running primarily from solar / wind (which your post implies) I would be surprised if you can make the energy budget work.

A watermaker that you have not got the power to run will not be bargain.

No offence intended, I am just trying to steer you the right direction from my impression (which may be wrong) of your requirements.

Noelex is offering very good advice.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Noelex is offering very good advice.

But it will be ignored like every other post

Speaking of lower cost options... There was a demo Sea Recovery with new membrane for $2500.

The HRO with the painted CAT pump for $50 looks like a good buy too.

1) $50 HRO carcass... remove pump, motor, flow gauge, needle valve and diverting valve.
2) $100 Rebuild the pump once you figure out if it is a 237, 247 etc.
3) $350 New membrane vessel
4) $200 Dow Filmtec membrane
5) $100 Replace the high pressure hoses
6) $100 Feed pump
7) $100 Filter canisters, filters, hoses, clamps and power cable

Manual Watermaker for under $1000. Add another $1000 for a Honda $2000 and you have a charging system and watermaker for $2000.

Oh, and that is guessing high on every part listed.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

But it will be ignored like every other post

Speaking of lower cost options... There was a demo Sea Recovery with new membrane for $2500.

The HRO with the painted CAT pump for $50 looks like a good buy too.

1) $50 HRO carcass... remove pump, motor, flow gauge, needle valve and diverting valve.
2) $100 Rebuild the pump once you figure out if it is a 237, 247 etc.
3) $350 New membrane vessel
4) $200 Dow Filmtec membrane
5) $100 Replace the high pressure hoses
6) $100 Feed pump
7) $100 Filter canisters, filters, hoses, clamps and power cable

Manual Watermaker for under $1000. Add another $1000 for a Honda $2000 and you have a charging system and watermaker for $2000.

Oh, and that is guessing high on every part listed.

Barring any unseen issues that don't seem apparent now, I'd agree and say your guess is pretty darn close.

[Tellie]

Oh and by the way.
Come on down to the Miami Strictly Sailboat show.
We'll be raffling off a brand new Spectra at Saturday nights party.
I'll even personally buy Wolfie four arms lengths of raffle tickets if he shows up. Ya can't beat that for a really cheap efficient watermaker that will fit perfectly on a 30 footer.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Wolfenzee, just make sure you do your energy budget carefully. Running a non energy recovery watermaker from wind/solar is difficult, particuarly on a 30foot boat.
If you are planning on running the main engine and or generator every day that will work OK and a non energy recovery watermaker will be fine.

If you are planning on running primarily from solar / wind (which your post implies) I would be surprised if you can make the energy budget work.

A watermaker that you have not got the power to run will not be bargain.

No offence intended, I am just trying to steer you the right direction from my impression (which may be wrong) of your requirements.

To use another type of watermaker would be the most cost effective....because I wouldn't be able to afford one, making the cost $0, those watermakers are almost 1/2 my annual income.
Everything, especially on boats, is a compromise. I simply offered a drastically less expensive, mechanically simpler (subsequently more reliable) alternative....the trade off is a higher power consumption, I would consider it worth a think.
An other thing to take into consideration is how one plans on using a watermaker......for me it would be to top off the tanks occasionally, to some it would be thier primary source of water and they would use more water than is normally used on a boat because they feel they have an unlimited supply.