Which Watermaker To Choose

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by CeesH

Hi Carsten,

This company in Holland always have a few used watermakers on stock, maybe you give them a call. +31 641043727

Vlietstroom Power - Voorburg/Denhaag

CeesH

I'm not familiar with the company in the link but I would be very, very, careful when buying a used watermaker, especially from E-bay. There are some really great deals at times, but then there are some real expensive disasters as well. In my experience very few people pull out a perfectly good watermaker from their boat and store it in their garage for a year or two, it just doesn't make sense. Most working units stay in the boat and are sold as part of the boat. A few people will take out a watermaker to install it in a new boat. If you are tempted to buy a used unit it's worth paying a trained tech to have a look at it. If not, at the least you'll want to see it operate for an hour or two and test the product water. It can literaly cost thousands to repair an unknown watermaker, thread carefully

[CeesH]

Originally Posted by Tellie

I'm not familiar with the company in the link but I would be very, very, careful when buying a used watermaker, especially from E-bay. There are some really great deals at times, but then there are some real expensive disasters as well. In my experience very few people pull out a perfectly good watermaker from their boat and store it in their garage for a year or two, it just doesn't make sense. Most working units stay in the boat and are sold as part of the boat. A few people will take out a watermaker to install it in a new boat. If you are tempted to buy a used unit it's worth paying a trained tech to have a look at it. If not, at the least you'll want to see it operate for an hour or two and test the product water. It can literaly cost thousands to repair an unknown watermaker, thread carefully

When you read the dutch sailing magazine's there are a lot of stories about people returning after a few year circum who try to make some cache selling their SSB, Modem, Watermaker and other stuff daysailor not need in Holland.

And about this company I only know thats a major Victron dealer with a good reputation.....

CeesH (Dutchman living in Brazil)

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Tellie

I'm not familiar with the company in the link but I would be very, very, careful when buying a used watermaker, especially from E-bay. There are some really great deals at times, but then there are some real expensive disasters as well. In my experience very few people pull out a perfectly good watermaker from their boat and store it in their garage for a year or two, it just doesn't make sense. Most working units stay in the boat and are sold as part of the boat. A few people will take out a watermaker to install it in a new boat. If you are tempted to buy a used unit it's worth paying a trained tech to have a look at it. If not, at the least you'll want to see it operate for an hour or two and test the product water. It can literaly cost thousands to repair an unknown watermaker, thread carefully

Seems to me that would be exactly what I would do. Pull off about $30k worth of blue water stuff (wind vane, raft, watermaker, series drogue, etc) before selling my boat because they will add very little value in my market where almost everyone is coastal cruising.

[Matt Johnson]

Mine came off a boat that wanted more capacity than the 9GPH unit could accommodate. Having looked at the rest of the items being sold, you could tell the guy really liked his toys and wasn't afraid to spend the money upgrading.

I actually bought two Katadyn 40e units off eBay before I bought the HRO. They both worked great with the testing I was able to do with a saltwater tank in garage.... one was going to be a cheap parts unit for the first, but they both ended-up working great. The HRO was just a higher capacity unit for a very good price and was what I finally installed on my boat.

[svseachange]

We are leaning towards a belt driven model from Echotech. It seems like a no brainer. We are power misers but we still expect to run our engine at least once a week to keep it in good shape. Our solar keep up with all our other needs, if it does not we can supplement it when making water. The only deal killer I can think of is engine room space.

Anyone got experience belt driven systems? Or can anyone tell us why belt driven systems are a bad idea?

[Tellie]

Like I said, you can find some really great deals out there, some have even made me envious. I had a young couple come up to me at the Ft. Lauderdale show last year with a brand new 10K watermaker in the box they bought off some dude on Craigs list for $800. They wanted to know if it was worth the $800 they paid. There was the guy that brought me 4 brand new never used Clark pumps he found inside a big box he paid $50 for at a bankruptcy sale. There are those that re-outfit and those that decide that their watermaker was too big or too small, which is why choosing the right one takes some thought the first time. They may be just anxious to move on and sell it at a great price. But it has been my experience that far more units that are sitting in some dudes garage, Sailorman shelves, or marine flea markets are pure junk and too expensive to bring back to life. Usually it's always a great deal for the seller, but use extreme Caveat emptor for the untrained eye. Don't let me dissuade anybody from buying a used unit. I'll even help out a fellow CF member if they find one they might like and give my advice before they buy.

[Bash]

The one consideration I'm not hearing here is noise. Does anyone have advice on which units are more quiet for those of us who won't be running the engine while making water?

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

We are leaning towards a belt driven model from Echotech. It seems like a no brainer. We are power misers but we still expect to run our engine at least once a week to keep it in good shape. Our solar keep up with all our other needs, if it does not we can supplement it when making water. The only deal killer I can think of is engine room space.

Anyone got experience belt driven systems? Or can anyone tell us why belt driven systems are a bad idea?

I usually leave this subject alone because I get very long winded on why I don't like them and I'm not up for a debate on this tonight. But let me say this. You would wonder why the largest and the best watermaker companies like, Spectra, Parker Racor, Village Marine, HRO, Sea Recovery, etc., who have the best talent and the most experience with tens of thousands of watermakers made and sold, who pour huge amounts of money in R&D, don't make engine driven watermakers if they are no brainers. Ya think they missed the obvious? Not likely.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Bash

The one consideration I'm not hearing here is noise. Does anyone have advice on which units are more quiet for those of us who won't be running the engine while making water?

Spectra hands down. Installed under a bunk with the A/C running you'd have to listen hard to even hear it. A plunger pump can make quite a racket.

[svseachange]

Thanks Tellie, I'm looking forward to your followup if/when you feel like writing it. As a Spectra dealer you are sure to have strong opinions on the matter.

In the meantime, can anyone describe a good, bad and/or indifferent experience with a belt driven watermaker? We are looking for cold, hard facts and figures.

[impi]

Tellie ... best thing we ever did was to meet you at the Miami Boat Show ... you sure know your stuff when it comes to water.
We are incredibly happy with our Spectra Newport MK11 ... I love the fact that we never have to pickle the unit ... it is self maintaining and reverse flushes automatically.
The Z-membrane is great!
The water filters we purchased from you have also proved to be good value and are working great. We never think about water conservation, wash our decks down, do washing with a large washing machine and over exactly 1 year now have 1321 hrs on our unit ... some 82,000 liters ... we have not had the slightest issue with this unit ... in fact we only ever push the start button and hardly ever remember it's there!

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

Thanks Tellie, I'm looking forward to your followup if/when you feel like writing it. As a Spectra dealer you are sure to have strong opinions on the matter.

In the meantime, can anyone describe a good, bad and/or indifferent experience with a belt driven watermaker? We are looking for cold, hard facts and figures.

I have had a belt driven watermaker, but off a 12v generator, not the main engine,and worked well. The main problem is in the engineering.

The high pressure compressor needs to mounted on the engine. It cannot be mounted elsewhere because of engine movement. The next problem is sideways load on the engine. It really needs to balanced on the other side, say with a large alternator.
The final probroblem is compressor speed. Do you set it up to be correct at anchor with the engine say at 1000 revs or at cruising revs.

It will be a one off construction so there is likely to be teething problems. There is always the concern of engine problems due to side load on the pulley.
All these problems are not insurmountable, but you need to able to do the work yourself (building the frame to mount the compressor the engine etc) otherwise the costs will be high.

You also need to be sure this will suit your lifestyle. Watermakers need to be run every 5 days at a maximum ( personally I prefer a 3 day maximum). Cruising sailors slow down. Charterers move anchorage every day, but cruising sailors, like us, will often linger a week, occasionally two weeks, in the one anchorage.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Seems to me that would be exactly what I would do. Pull off about $30k worth of blue water stuff (wind vane, raft, watermaker, series drogue, etc) before selling my boat because they will add very little value in my market where almost everyone is coastal cruising.

Actually I always take off the advanced stuff as I've never seen it really reflect in the sales price and especially in the current market. I usually remove water makers, radar , advanced chargers etc. even in one case a generator.

Dave

[svseachange]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The next problem is sideways load on the engine. It really needs to balanced on the other side, say with a large alternator.
The final probroblem is compressor speed. Do you set it up to be correct at anchor with the engine say at 1000 revs or at cruising revs.

Thanks Noelex 77, that is the kind of information I was looking for. I was trying to work out why people tolerate the loss of power in the conversion from engine>>alternator>>batteries>>water.

I am going to ask Echotech about sideways engine load. I will also ask them how to the system is disengaged when it does not need to be run. We are not purists and happily turn our sailboat into a trawler in very light conditions.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

I will also ask them how to the system is disengaged when it does not need to be run.

The most common way is to attach the belt to a clutch, like a car air conditioning compressor.
The clutch looks like a regular pulley, but will disengage and freewheel when not needed.
I have never pulled one apart, but I presume its just an electromagnetic locking mechanism.