"Y" Valves and locks

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

That's definitely not my experience on Lake Ontario. I've had the opposite experence! Most boaters I've run into tend to use the marina facilities instead of filling their tanks, but I've yet to run into anyone who is setup to dump overboard that is planning on staying on the Lakes. people just generally don't do that as we're all aware of the steep fines for getting caught!

I have never heard of anyone getting caught in Ontario and can find no record of such a fine online. Our water cops are not that proficient. I'm not sure what your experience is but mine comes from somewhere close to 3500 surveys, the vast majority on Lake Ontario.

Take a look at any Beneteau, Hanse, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Dufour and the bigger Hunters and Catalinas, they all come from the factory with overboard discharge facilities. I think it unrealistic to think they are not used.

[Nicholson58]

This has been accepted on the Great Lakes - total zero discharge zone. I trilled the handles on the valves and add in an extender that interferes with boat structure. These are secured with over-the-road truck single use seals. A pad lock would be accepted too. I record the seal numbers in the log book & date them.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by CHM

Look out for the dye packet in the head as well. They put dye in and flush. If dye appears outside the hull, you're done.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

In some ways that simple dye test is a fair check of actual intent and recent activity. The PITA is having to remember to do the locking-tie/handle removal break dance before straying back inside the 3 mile frontier from an offshore trip to find that PC Dibble is hiding behind the next wave, citation book in hand and quick promotion in mind. My intentions are good enough but with age and after having two total hip replacements and a stroke, my contortionist talents have waned, especially if in a bit of a seaway and bouncing around when the lock it up job needs doing.

This is an example of being innocent until proven guilty being replaced by the assumption of guilt until proved innocent, several times over.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I have never heard of anyone getting caught in Ontario and can find no record of such a fine online. Our water cops are not that proficient. I'm not sure what your experience is but mine comes from somewhere close to 3500 surveys, the vast majority on Lake Ontario.

Take a look at any Beneteau, Hanse, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Dufour and the bigger Hunters and Catalinas, they all come from the factory with overboard discharge facilities. I think it unrealistic to think they are not used.

I think you are being unrealistic in your assumptions. Your 3500 surveys may have revealed that the majority of the boats have Y valves however assuming that they discharge overboard is a ridiculous accusation. When you surveyed these boats did you note that having a Y valve was against the regulations and subsequently make the recommendation to remove it?

[motion30]

I am here in Florida and have a question relating to this. I know the Coast Guard has the right to board Your Vessel. Leo's do not as I understand. What happens if you refuse a quest for boarding from the local Water police
anyone with real life experience on this

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

I think you are being unrealistic in your assumptions. Your 3500 surveys may have revealed that the majority of the boats have Y valves however assuming that they discharge overboard is a ridiculous accusation. When you surveyed these boats did you note that having a Y valve was against the regulations and subsequently make the recommendation to remove it?

First of all I never said they were "against the regulations" nor that they should be removed. I pointed out that in the Canadian Great Lakes they must be "physically separated" (disconnected) from any discharge throughull.

After standing under thousands of boats hanging in travel lift slings and seeing human waste drip from the discharge throughull I think my position is warranted. Also many of the European boats have discharge outlets on the bottom of their holding tanks that are gravity discharged, no Y-valve required ....if they are open they are discharging. You may also want to ask the staff at any harbour with a travel lift how often they see waste dripping from hauled boats. I think I have a little more experience with the issue than you and "ridiculous" is a term you should reconsider.

There will be around 150 boats competing in the LO300 race around Lake Ontario this weekend. It is a non-stop 3 day race with 4-8 people per boat what do you think they are doing with their waste ?

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

First of all I never said they were "against the regulations" nor that they should be removed. I pointed out that in the Canadian Great Lakes they must be "physically separated" (disconnected) from any discharge throughull.

After standing under thousands of boats hanging in travel lift slings and seeing human waste drip from the discharge throughull I think my position is warranted. Also many of the European boats have discharge outlets on the bottom of their holding tanks that are gravity discharged, no Y-valve required ....if they are open they are discharging. You may also want to ask the staff at any harbour with a travel lift how often they see waste dripping from hauled boats. I think I have a little more experience with the issue than you and "ridiculous" is a term you should reconsider.

There will be around 150 boats competing in the LO300 race around Lake Ontario this weekend. It is a non-stop 3 day race with 4-8 people per boat what do you think they are doing with their waste ?

Again you are assuming....how do you know what my experience is????

Furthermore, you obviously didn't read my post. I asked that when you conduct a survey do you note or mention the Y valve as a deficient item and recommend that it should be physically separated?

I have competed in the LO300 and can attest to the fact that anybody I have come in contact with does not discharge waste into the great lakes. That is what I think!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Again you are assuming....how do you know what my experience is????

Furthermore, you obviously didn't read my post. I asked that when you conduct a survey do you note or mention the Y valve as a deficient item and recommend that it should be physically separated?

I have competed in the LO300 and can attest to the fact that anybody I have come in contact with does not discharge waste into the great lakes. That is what I think!!

My assumption ? .... so how many boats in slings have you examined ?

I applaud your ability to control your bowels for three days, perhaps a visit to your doctor should be considered.
Now somewhere over 500 guys controlling their bowels for 3 days is truly Guinness book of records worthy.

As to what I recommend, you can see for yourself in the sample survey reports on my website.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My assumption ? .... so how many boats in slings have you examined ?

I applaud your ability to control your bowels for three days, perhaps a visit to your doctor should be considered.
Now somewhere over 500 guys controlling their bowels for 3 days is truly Guinness book of records worthy.

As to what I recommend, you can see for yourself in the sample survey reports on my website.

Your surveys are better than most. My point is that you shouldn't make assumptions that there are an abnormal amount of people discharging waste into the great lakes when in my experience is opposite to that. The regulations concerning Y valves in the great lakes are clear and I believe most boaters are environmentally conscious and adhere to the regs.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by motion30

I am here in Florida and have a question relating to this. I know the Coast Guard has the right to board Your Vessel. Leo's do not as I understand. What happens if you refuse a quest for boarding from the local Water police
anyone with real life experience on this

I am under the impression the the FWC does in fact have the authority to board you and inspect your plumbing, I cannot quote the law though.
Plus to be honest what does it take for probable cause to exist? An opinion of I thought I smelled alcohol etc.?
I can't see any positive outcome with arguing with them or not allowing them on board, I have never been boarded, I have been stopped and questioned by both the CBP and the USCG and had the FWC come by and point to his vest, wanting me to show him ours, always I have acted friendly and courteous, and they have gone away without boarding.
I have the impression that if I was discourteous that it could have been a lot more hassle than it was.

Read this, way I read it, if you have a fishing pole, your subject to inspection
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/ne...ions/78016364/

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Your surveys are better than most. My point is that you shouldn't make assumptions that there are an abnormal amount of people discharging waste into the great lakes when in my experience is opposite to that. The regulations concerning Y valves in the great lakes are clear and I believe most boaters are environmentally conscious and adhere to the regs.

I'm not making much of an assumption when I clearly state that approximately 60% of the sailboats I survey in the Great Lakes have open (seacocks) an operable overboard discharge systems whether through Y-valves, macerators or gravity.

It defies reason to think the they close these systems prior to defecating then open them again afterwards so that I will make a comment in the survey.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I'm not making much of an assumption when I clearly state that approximately 60% of the sailboats I survey in the Great Lakes have open (seacocks) an operable overboard discharge systems whether through Y-valves, macerators or gravity.

It defies reason to think the they close these systems prior to defecating then open them again afterwards so that I will make a comment in the survey.

We are not in the Great lakes but our onboard system allows for direct discharge overboard, or discharge to holding tank, as selected by a Y valve and overboard outlet thru hull valve. Our holding tank can be pumped out or gravity drained via the overboard thru hull valve.

Having the ABILITY to discharge overboard does NOT mean that such discharge is actuallydone except where such is permissible. In our case the Y valves, thru hull valves are located in a (combination coded) locked locker to which only the captain has the combination, PLUS the valves are all cable tied in the appropriate preventive positions.

Our boat was European built and exported to the USA. I chose the addition of the locked lockers in order to cover the situation where for whatever reason the cable ties have not been replaced, even though the valves themselves are actually in the 'clean' position, on order to prevent accidental/unintentional discharge. This is my attempt at 'fail safe' for when I have not yet re-tied the valves on our return from seawards where discharge is legal possibly because of weather conditions or sea state. We sail as a husband and wife crew 99.9% of the time and are paranoid about meeting FWC or the like on a bad hair day. our system has been Ok'd by the voluntary CG inspection which I appreciate is not a licence to poop willy nilly but It is a start point from which we can hopefully negotiate our release from jail. ,

[mottseng]

Just read through Transport Canada website on holding tanks and overboard discharge (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...ndix2-1582.htm). It is clear that if a boat is equipped with means of overboard discharge will have to be disconnected and blanked before entering the waters of Ontario where most of the Great Lakes cruising occurs.

BOATPOKER, I trust that when you conduct your surveys and discover that there is an existing means of overboard discharge you not only recommend but insist that it must be disconnected as prescribed.

In my opinion if one is in a position to initiate a corrective action but chooses not too they are equally guilty.

Lets do what we can to protect our natural resources so future generations can enjoy these great waters.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Just read through Transport Canada website on holding tanks and overboard discharge (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...ndix2-1582.htm). It is clear that if a boat is equipped with means of overboard discharge will have to be disconnected and blanked before entering the waters of Ontario where most of the Great Lakes cruising occurs.

BOATPOKER, I trust that when you conduct your surveys and discover that there is an existing means of overboard discharge you not only recommend but insist that it must be disconnected as prescribed.

In my opinion if one is in a position to initiate a corrective action but chooses not too they are equally guilty.

Lets do what we can to protect our natural resources so future generations can enjoy these great waters.

If you look at the Catalina 42 sample survey report on my website (as previously mentioned) you will see that I do not mince words on the issue.
Unfortunately my word carries little import.