32' Sloop - New Halyards

[rgleason]

Mast= 37.5'

Possible options to replace existing main and (2) jib halyards 3/8" NER Sta Set-X (new in 1993)

1. 10mm 3/8" Samson XLS3 2.23% @20% BS 6300lb $0.88 x 270 = $237.60
2. 10mm 3/8" NER Sta Set-X 1.95% stretch @ 20% BS, 5300 lb 270'x $1.05= $283.50
   
3. 10mm 3/8" NER VPC Hybrid Performance 1.40% at 20% BS, 6500 lbs 270' x $1.43 = $386.10
4. 8mm 5/16" NER Viper 7000lb 270'x $1.49 = $402.30
5. 8mm 5/16" NER T-900 Braided Rope 1.2% at 20% BS, 6800 lbs 270 x 2.59 = $699.30
6. 10mm 3/8" Samson MLX3 0.74% at 20% BS 7700 lb 270 x $1.48 = $399.60
7. 8mm 5/16" Samson MLX3 0.74% at 20% BS 4500 lb 270' x $1.14 = $307.80

I have not found technical information about NER Viper stretch ??@20%.
I do not know if 8mm 5/16" Viper would be acceptable for halyards on this boat.
If I need 10mm 3/8" Viper as a minimum, the cost goes up to $483 and I would likely pick something different.


Any thoughts or suggestions?

[rgleason]

Here is a great calculator on the L-36 website. Using

• Force in pounds (use 20 to 50 for human power). 35 lbs
• Winch power ratio (if winch) 10
• Length (of system if multi part, not line) feet. Blank for %: 36
• Safety Factor (results will be red) 5

https://l-36.com/line_stretch.php?fo...afety_factor=5
Which is about what I do if it is very windy. I find that there is 2.07in. of stretch in my main with the current Sta Set X.


10mm VPC = 3.02 in
8mm XLS3 = 2.81 in
8mm Sta Set X = 2.59 in
10mm XLS3 = 2.12 in
8mm V-100 = 2.12 in
10mm Sta Set X = 2.07 in <-- Does pretty well.
10mm V-100 = 1.99 in
8mm MLX = 1.56 in
10mm MLX = 1.21 in
8mm T-900 = 1.08 in
8mm Warpspeed= 1.08 in

[Cheechako]

I'd pick which feels best on the hands for a cruising boat.

[rgleason]

The L-36 table in the link above has elongation of 1% at 20% which is incorrect
so these numbers are not right at all.

8mm XLS3 = 2.81 in
10mm XLS3 = 2.12 in

The stretch for XLS3 is 2.23% @20%
So it is not comparable to Staset X stretch.
However people like the hand and say it is easy to splice.

[sandy stone]

I recently replaced the main halyard on my 37' boat with 10mm Viper. The 10mm is completely adequate for club racing on my boat, and would be overkill on a 32 footer. I find it rather stiff and slippery, at least when new, a lot like Sta-Set X. It also tends to hockle, so when coiling the tail I'm careful to always flake it. The only problem I see with 8mm on your boat is that it would be hard to grip.

[Pete7]

Will the clutches if you have any grip a 5/16" halyard?

Also its a bit thin for pulling by hand. 3/8" or 10mm for me, is much nicer to handle.

[Benz]

3/8" Samson XLS.

[rgleason]

The halyards have winches and cleats on the mast so the 5/16" would not be an issue with those conditions, but I agree with Pete7 about the hauling up which I always do to the top, so it's going to have to be 3/8", and since it is 3/8" line now, Samson XLS3 is pretty close to Sta Set X in elasticity. 1.98% compared to 2.23% at 20% BS.

However since even when it is windy, I doubt I get much more than 400 lbs on the halyard, 40 lbs x 10:1 Winch = 400 lbs. This is about 6.3% of the Breaking Strength, so the elongation will be proportionally less, or about 2.23%/3.17 = .70% elongation. This would be applied to about 40' of line, so 0.007 x 40' = 0.28' = 3.36" As seen in the L-36 Chart the Sta Set-X elongation is 2.07 in. which is about 2/3 less. Note:

This from below is wrong "10mm XLS3 = 2.12 in" because the L-36 table had 1% at 20% and it is incorrect!

The XLS3 will be an easier Type 1 Double Braid splice, whereas the Sta Set X is a type II splice, which is not that hard either.

So I guess I will go with XLS3

10mm 3/8" Samson XLS3 2.23% @20% BS 6300lb $0.88 x 270 = $237.60

[Benz]

Just a note: Sta-setX is not a normal class II splice. It is curmudgeonly to splice, unwieldly to use, and altogether one of the worst rope designs known to man.

Another note: Super-tight halyard tension doesn't matter too much until you have carbon or other non-stretchy sails. The luff on a dacron sail will always stretch a little too.

[Orion Jim]

My halyards, main, and staysail sheets are all 10mm Viper. The older you get the more you appreciate the larger diameters as they’re easier to grip. With Viper there’s no appreciable creep, you set them once and you’re done. 8MM is just too small for halyards on a cruiser your size.
My asymmetrical sheets are Sampson MLX3 mainly because the core is dyed to match the tracer and I tapered the last 19’ so the core is exposed. MLX3 would also be a fine choice for halyards in place of the Viper.

[rgleason]

Another possible line to use would be Yale ULS no info about stretch though
3/8" 5,800 lb ave spliced BS 1,160 max work load
https://www.yalecordage.com/product/uls-yacht-braid/

[rgleason]

Good point Benz, Orion Jim, just ordered (2) 3/8" viper halyards,instead of (3) XLS3 halyards. Please dont ask me why.

which is a better fitting?
Ronstan RF1033 https://catalog.ronstanindustrial.co...?ProdNo=RF1033

Suncor Halyard Shackle with Key Pin S0164-0008 316ss 1000lb Working Live Load, width is 3/4" , E= .84" D=2.37"
https://suncorstainless.com/wp-conte...0Key%20Pin.pdf

[Benz]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Good point Benz, Orion Jim, just ordered (2) 3/8" viper halyards,instead of (3) XLS3 halyards. Please dont ask me why.

which is a better fitting?
Ronstan RF1033 https://catalog.ronstanindustrial.co...?ProdNo=RF1033

Suncor Halyard Shackle with Key Pin S0164-0008 316ss 1000lb Working Live Load, width is 3/4" , E= .84" D=2.37"
https://suncorstainless.com/wp-conte...0Key%20Pin.pdf

The Suncor is harder to accidentally open, but still easy to open on purpose. That long lever on the Ronstan makes it susceptible of snagging.

[rgleason]

Thank you Ben. That's helpful. I am only familiar with the suncor style.