Acquiring A Ready Made Series Drogue

[Don C L]

The drogue's purpose is to slow a boat down to prevent a broach at the bottom of a wave, this means it is only meant to be used from the stern. Nylon will stretch like a rubber band and let the boat fall forward just when you want it to slow down. The sea anchor's purpose is to stop the boat to prevent it from falling back down on a wave damaging the rudder and to keep the pointy end (mostly) into the oncoming waves, off the bow or somewhat at an angle off the port or stbd bow as the Pardey's liked it.
But I shore would like to see that tractor tire set-up too!
They do pop up now and then, we should keep our eye out for one for you. There was a guy who had a JSD for sale here some months back for a Westsail 43 I think that had never been used supposedly.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by KP44

Thank you for that. I learn every day.

I am more likely to use our parachute-type anchor and sit hove-to with the keel and the parachute creating a slick to calm the waves.

I suggest you research that thinking on the Shane's Drag Device Database. Unless I misunderstand you, it is a very bad plan. You will be neither hanging from the chute nor hove to. If the waves are big enough to be a danger, the slick won't be enough to help. In other words, you will be OK, until suddenly you are not. Also remember that the chute will be over 100 yards away.

Really, for a chute to work, it needs to be big enough to stop you dead.

[Don C L]

Did you see these in the UK eBay?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SERIES-DR...-/380223607264
They don't look beefy enough to me, I think it was mentioned in that thread a while back that the leading edge of the cone should also be webbing didn't it?
I wonder if that cone and their drogues really have the seal of approval from Don Jordan?

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's behind a paywall. Maybe you can summarize the problem with the cones?

oh come on.... it's only 20 bucks a year... pay the money and stop being a cheapskate.... you will get much better advice that what you will get on cruisersforum, a website that demands you already be a profi so you can sort the bull from real.
also morganscloud has all the experience you need with the places you are going.... and you don't want to pay 20 bucks... i'm tempted to tell them that if they see your name to charge you 2000 bucks.
it would be the best 2000 bucks you will spend on your expedition and save you a heap of time and money!!!!

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

According to the inventor, Don Jordan :

"
"The increased stretch will not reduce the load, in a breaking wave strike. In fact it will increase it a bit. The drogue must pick up the load quickly before the boat broaches and must turn the boat into the wave. The cones near the boat perform this function and THE LESS STRETCH THE BETTER [emphasis added]."

As quoted in this forum some years ago by CarinaPDX.

I found some interesting information on OceanBrake's website that seems to contradict this. You can read the full article at Configuration & Assembly | Ocean Brake but I include the pertinent bits here (nothing added, other than color-coding the main point so it stands out):

Bridle
We recommend the bridle legs (2) should be made from Nylon double braid rope. Wire or 3 strand could be also used for this component. Chosing a different coloured nylon helps to locate the bridle quickly. The bridle line should match or exceed the largest line used in the drogue. The length of each leg is calculated in the following way:-

2.5 x beam at fixing points plus an additional 3 metres to provide for the 20cm soft eye splices at each end of the leg

Drogue Line
The U.S. Coast Guard tests concluded that 3 strand rope unravels when subjected to high tension loads. For this reason, all line used should be double braid Nylon (the “stretch-ability” of Nylon is a vital part of the drogue design). Cones are spaced every 50cms (20″) To facilitate fitting, it is recommended that cones are loaded onto a 1 metre length of plastic plumbing pipe. The line is passed through the centre of the pipe. Cones can then slipped off the pipe onto the drogue line and attached. As more line is required, it can be drawn off the reel and through the pipe into the work area. This area can be a table or board marked with coloured lines at the correct centres, to simplify locating the exact point for each cone attachment.

-David

[alctel]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I suggest you research that thinking on the Shane's Drag Device Database. Unless I misunderstand you, it is a very bad plan. You will be neither hanging from the chute nor hove to. If the waves are big enough to be a danger, the slick won't be enough to help. In other words, you will be OK, until suddenly you are not. Also remember that the chute will be over 100 yards away.

Really, for a chute to work, it needs to be big enough to stop you dead.

No, I think he means with a bridle, like the Pardleys do in 'Storm Tactics'. That will work fine as well - it's been pretty extensively tested, though compared to the series drogue it's a bit less 'set and forget'. But still a good option.

I actually have a both a series drogue and a parachute anchor so I have the option of either if one breaks. (probably a bit overkill)

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

I found some interesting information on OceanBrake's website that seems to contradict this. You can read the full article at Configuration & Assembly | Ocean Brake but I include the pertinent bits here (nothing added, other than color-coding the main point so it stands out):

Bridle
We recommend the bridle legs (2) should be made from Nylon double braid rope. Wire or 3 strand could be also used for this component. Chosing a different coloured nylon helps to locate the bridle quickly. The bridle line should match or exceed the largest line used in the drogue. The length of each leg is calculated in the following way:-

2.5 x beam at fixing points plus an additional 3 metres to provide for the 20cm soft eye splices at each end of the leg

Drogue Line
The U.S. Coast Guard tests concluded that 3 strand rope unravels when subjected to high tension loads. For this reason, all line used should be double braid Nylon (the “stretch-ability” of Nylon is a vital part of the drogue design). Cones are spaced every 50cms (20″) To facilitate fitting, it is recommended that cones are loaded onto a 1 metre length of plastic plumbing pipe. The line is passed through the centre of the pipe. Cones can then slipped off the pipe onto the drogue line and attached. As more line is required, it can be drawn off the reel and through the pipe into the work area. This area can be a table or board marked with coloured lines at the correct centres, to simplify locating the exact point for each cone attachment.

-David

Yeah I read through that too. That’s very curious given what Don Jordan has written about the design and construction of the drogue. I see in the designer notes he doesn’t mention which line to use.

[fxykty]

I’ve been emailing back and forth with OceanBrake and they say no problem other than cost to replace the drogue line with Dyneema (and benefits in less weight and bulk), but to keep the bridles made of nylon to reduce shock loads on the boat fittings. In the bridle alone that’s only 2-3m of stretch at max load so I wouldn’t think that’s an issue.

Thoughts?

[kmacdonald]

You can use dyneema for the bridle also. There will be no shock loads.

[Matt Johnson]

I wouldn't even think of making it out of anything but dyneema.

Our double braid version is huge and it makes having it rigged and ready to deploy difficult due to space in the cockpit (no real aft deck). Add the weight savings, no water retention and durability of dyneema, and it should be a no brainier.... also, it's so much quicker to splice in the cones with a single braid.

Doesn't work for Dockhead, but you can often find sections of Amsteel available for a lower cost than double braid. I bought 205' sections of 3/8" Dyneema from Defender last year for $50. Hamilton Marine often has similar pricing.



Matt

[kmacdonald]

3/8" X 100' at Hamilton Marine for $50.00. 18,800 breaking strength. NE ropes.
https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/prod...rs--47592.html

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What shock loads?

The drogue is moving through the water, not attached to anything solid.

Nylon is weaker when wet, and is subject to unexpected failure under cyclical loads. Is heavy and bulky. Not what I want.

There are high loads because you cannot ensure constant equal speed of the boat and the drogue. Think about waves, gusts.
It is also the reason why people add strength to the stern attachment points.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by meirriba

There are high loads because you cannot ensure constant equal speed of the boat and the drogue. Think about waves, gusts.
It is also the reason why people add strength to the stern attachment points.

Yes, I agree, of course the loads can be large. So the drogue needs to be strong enough, as do the anchor points. But there are no shock loads requiring stretch in the drogue itself.

[familysailing]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

We have the same issue with the frayed cones on our Sailrite kit Jordan drogue. The builder just cut the cone with a hot knife and rolled over the edge for sewing (per the instructions). A few cones in the first 100' section have frayed edges... that is why the OceanBrake version is so nice. Much better built cones.

Matt

double stitched, folded stitched edges
here is a photo of ocean brake cones

[kmacdonald]

I'm not so sure you need to design for "worst case scenario loads". The working loads even in a survival storm are only about 10% of once in a lifetime worst case loads. That "worst case scenario" won't happen even if you only occasionally check the weather. After all, we just don't get blindsided by hurricanes anymore so why design for them. I guess if it helps you sleep better go for it but I prefer a lighter, easier to store and handle Jordan Series Drogue.