Adding a drifter to the sail inventory with a furled headsail

[01kiwijohn]

I have an old Cascade 36, with just a 13 foot "J" measurement, and it has a Profurl.
I went to Sailexchange, in CA, and they sold me a used, lightweight (about 160% size) genoa, with a wire luff. I fly it loose and it does an ok job both downwind and a somewhat close reach. But, the main sail is THE main sail so, there's no real advantage in trying to point higher than a beam reach with it .

[fred4936]

Our boat came with a roller furler and a Code Zero. With it was an ATN Tacker, which attaches the tack of Code Zero to a cuff that goes around the furled headsail. Works really well!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

What are the other options I'm not thinking of.

A naval architect who cruised with his family for several years and who does not post on this forum once described his drifter setup to me. A key point is that it was only intended for light air use and designed accordingly so everything was much lighter weight than would otherwise be possible.



It involved a Dyneema forestay with a halyard block at the top with a halyard going up and down the length of the forestay. The whole thing was hoisted on the spinnaker halyard and attached to a reasonably secure fitting on the deck. I think he mentioned using the anchor roller.


He then attached a hank-on nylon drifter made of ridiculously light fabric, I believe 3 oz., and hoisted it up using the halyard, and sailed while everyone else was motoring. I think he used nylon hanks or fabric hanks or something to minimize chafe on the ersatz forestay.


The use of a hank-on sail makes it easier to control during the hoist and douse than a spinnaker or other free-flying sail. The dyneema forestay is inexpensive and easy to store compared to a top-down furler. Since the auxiliary halyard is hoisted along with the dyneema forestay there's no need to add an extra halyard to the mast beyond those normally present.


The limitation of that approach is that the spin halyard and bow roller aren't strong enough to provide enough luff tension for anything more than a light breeze, or enough luff tension to maintain sail shape when close hauled.

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by Jammer

A naval architect who cruised with his family for several years and who does not post on this forum once described his drifter setup to me. A key point is that it was only intended for light air use and designed accordingly so everything was much lighter weight than would otherwise be possible.



It involved a Dyneema forestay with a halyard block at the top with a halyard going up and down the length of the forestay. The whole thing was hoisted on the spinnaker halyard and attached to a reasonably secure fitting on the deck. I think he mentioned using the anchor roller.


He then attached a hank-on nylon drifter made of ridiculously light fabric, I believe 3 oz., and hoisted it up using the halyard, and sailed while everyone else was motoring. I think he used nylon hanks or fabric hanks or something to minimize chafe on the ersatz forestay.


The use of a hank-on sail makes it easier to control during the hoist and douse than a spinnaker or other free-flying sail. The dyneema forestay is inexpensive and easy to store compared to a top-down furler. Since the auxiliary halyard is hoisted along with the dyneema forestay there's no need to add an extra halyard to the mast beyond those normally present.


The limitation of that approach is that the spin halyard and bow roller aren't strong enough to provide enough luff tension for anything more than a light breeze, or enough luff tension to maintain sail shape when close hauled.

This is a wonderful idea! Thanks so much for sharing it.

[rgleason]

Marathon1150 wrote:

We installed an inner forestay for a stay sail and the storm jib. This was a really expensive bad idea and I would never do it again knowing what I know now. I would definitely not install an inner forestay for a drifter

You can use an Amsteel inner stay there too, that can be deployed when needed is a great solution. You need to work out the structural loads and have a way to tighten it. Sails with good smooth hanks will work or soft hanks and grommets. Good location for storm sail.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

I mean drifter in the sense of a ripstop nylon headsail that in effect is a large Genoa that is light enough to fly well in light winds. The last one we had would point just about as well as a normal genoa. We would run it up to about 10 knots then swap it out. This was hanked on not furled.

I'm not the biggest furler fan and have no interest in adding a second one. Plus it is well beyond my budget.

I used this system on my drifter.. using my spinnaker line.
Clipped onto one of the holes on my bow roller ahead of the Genoa furler.. furl the drifter and drop when finished using, clip on, hoist and unfurl to use.. if you can't afford around $100 you really are a 'low budget cruiser'.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I used this system on my drifter.. using my spinnaker line.
Clipped onto one of the holes on my bow roller ahead of the Genoa furler.. furl the drifter and drop when finished using, clip on, hoist and unfurl to use.. if you can't afford around $100 you really are a 'low budget cruiser'.

I was intrigued, so looked up a Ronstan model (similar to in the pic) that would fit our boat (120 series) for a code zero (std furler) and the cost was >$1200 (US) for just the furler and top swivel. For the 80 series (33' boat) was still ~$950 for just the std furler and top swivel. The torsion rope and thimbles would also be needed.

Where did you find the furler and top swivel for $100?I would like one for that price.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bill O

I was intrigued, so looked up a Ronstan model (similar to in the pic) that would fit our boat (120 series) for a code zero (std furler) and the cost was >$1200 (US) for just the furler and top swivel. For the 80 series (33' boat) was still ~$950 for just the std furler and top swivel. The torsion rope and thimbles would also be needed.

Where did you find the furler and top swivel for $100?I would like one for that price.

That should have been £'s but hell.. must confess I was talking about the price I paid a few years back and it was not that brand. I went to a chandler's in Poole, UK and looked at what they had and bought what I thought would do the job, under strength according to the makers but.. it served well for several years before I sold the boat.
If I remember correctly it was 'rated' for 20ftrs.. but as I said, it worked well enough for me.. F4 furl and drop.
Oh.. and I did not have a torsion rope, figured if the Sail was strong enough to clip at bottom and top then hoisted and flown as is, then strong enough to just add drum and swivel.
Not fancy but functional.. and your boat is near 20ft longer than my 31ftr and a lot heavier..

[rgleason]

Yes!

A drifter of lightweight nylon designed and shaped for slightly larger apparent upwind angle and reaching with an in luff dyneema tacked ahead of bowstay and hauled up by spin halyard, filling the headsail gap below 10 knots would be wonderful. Even our 130% is gets a bit under powered then.

Joe Copper, Quantum Sails Newport talked about this sail and I recall that Hood made one of these sails years ago. Is this really a Code x sail?

[Bill O]

We did have an old school drifter on our previous boat (40'). It basically was a hank-on 3/4oz genoa for upwind use in lighter air. Worked well.

Super easy to use and store w/no fancy hardware.

Have considered one for our current boat instead of a code zero.

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Yes!

A drifter of lightweight nylon designed and shaped for slightly larger apparent upwind angle and reaching with an in luff dyneema tacked ahead of bowstay and hauled up by spin halyard, filling the headsail gap below 10 knots would be wonderful. Even our 130% is gets a bit under powered then.

Joe Copper, Quantum Sails Newport talked about this sail and I recall that Hood made one of these sails years ago. Is this really a Code x sail?

https://youtu.be/5CXrAVvKnFc

This is a rather in depth analysis of the various options and how two of them perform. A lot of the naming seems to be marketing based with each big sail loft coming up with a different nomenclature. Drifter and code zero are certainly not the same thing but what a code zero is seems hard to nail down. It has a larger roach and a curved luff if that helps and typically a mid point that is 75% of the foot.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by Disailor

Marathon 1150
"We installed an inner forestay for a stay sail and the storm jib. This was a really expensive bad idea and I would never do it again knowing what I know now. I would definitely not install an inner forestay for a drifter."

If you installed an inner forestay for a stay sail and the storm jib did it work for those sails? Was flying a drifter from that new stay the mistake?

I'm thinking about how to add an inner forestay for storm jib.

The inner forestay for the storm jib and stay sail worked fine on the few occasions where we chose to use those sails. The rigger's advice was that in big wind it is important to move sails back and down, hence the inner forestay. And I can confirm that the rigger was right. However, the boat handles well with a deeply reefed main (3rd reef makes the main very small) and a scrap of genoa (currently mounted genoa is 130%).

Installing the inner forestay required moving the radar mount on the mast and a major change to the anchor locker configuration. This was very costly and time consuming compared to the number of times we have felt compelled to use one of the sails that mounts on the inner forestay. I may change mind as time goes on and more opportunities to use the inner , but for the moment, I consider this reconfiguration to be a costly mistake on this particular boat.

On other boats that I know that have added the inner forestay, it was simpler and less disruptive. Those owners were pretty happy with the results. I would seek advice from others who have the same boat as you and who have added the inner forestay.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

The inner forestay for the storm jib and stay sail worked fine on the few occasions where we chose to use those sails...

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

Adding new rigging components for a rare occasion is going the wrong direction.

Using a rolled up genoa for heavy weather is inefficient, but it will get you through that rare occasion when the storm jib or stay sail would be perfect. So put up with less than perfect. On the rare occasion put up with less than perfect rather than put up with the hassle of the inner forestay and the extra sails 24x7x365.

We have no inner stay. We have a storm jib but in 35 years of cruising we've never used it. Yes, the sailmaker is right: in heavy weather bring the sail area back and down. That's perfect. But keeping a scrap of sail on the head stay, while less than perfect, works fine.

Keep it simple.

[goboatingnow]

For light airs I use a endless furler and a asymmetric cruising chute. Easy peasy, haul the furler up,out of the bag , deploy the furling lines , unfurl.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

For light airs I use a endless furler and a asymmetric cruising chute. Easy peasy, haul the furler up,out of the bag , deploy the furling lines , unfurl.

That does sound easy. Not sure if it fits the OP's bill?