Alpine Butterfly for Jib Sheet?

[Wallaby]

The problem with ANY knot on a sheet to a clew (especially jib/genoa) is undoing it under load in an emergency. In my experience, when SHTF, knots become very important. It seems to me that a single line sheet (with a knot in the center) is inviting trouble.

Since I've never used the Alpine butterfly, maybe someone who has can let me know how easy it is to untie when the sail is flogging. The same with the cow hitch.


For many years, I used bowlines on separate sheets. A bowline can tighten and jam so it has to be cut free. Nowadays, with 610 sq ft of genoa, it's a fig-8 knot on each sheet, with opposing knots. Neither fig-8 can pull through the clew by itself, but either can be pulled in the reverse direction. The point is I do not need to undo the knot. BTW, I have switched out sheets underway and untangled a wineglass after a near knockdown.


Obviously, this will not work when there is a big 'friggin' ring attached to the clew.

[roverhi]

For my roller furling 135% use a single line with a Brummel Splice at the midpoint on the sail clew. It's a very clean set up that doesn't hang up on the shrouds like Bowlines or other knots do. Of course that makes the sheet dedicated to the sail but only ever use the 135% Genoa so it's no a problem. BTW, don't do a locking splice just a standard Brummell with each side of the splice passing through the other. https://www.animatedknots.com/brumme...lice-knot-demo

Keep two other lines that I can tie on with a bowline if I ever put up another headsail.

[thunderhoof]

I agree with suggestion of using a luggage tag but I recognize it can creep when sailing on a tack for a while. A cure for this, at least on smaller boats, is to put an additional half twist on the bight of the splice after the long tails have been pulled through the bight; then pass the tails through the twisted area. This gives enough friction to keep the knot in place on the line. It is not hard to untie it if necessary.

[jooa]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

I use an alpine butterfly. Since most Genoa sheets are well oversized anyway, it's never going to be a problem. IMO It's worth it for a tidier sheet config.

I use a similar set up for my genoa sheets but instead of an Alpine Butterfly, I seized an eye in the middle of the sheet. I also attach to the clew with a soft shackle and in the last 5 years+ I've had no problems at all. Makes for a smoother transition over the baby stay forward of the mast which the twin bowlines were always hanging up on.

[sailormed]

If you insert the jib ring in the middle of the knot I have had good results with the Double Fishermans bend. Very nice appearance, but undoing it is difficult after a season of use.

[Breaking Waves]

I tested a number of the single long sheet options - Prusik hitch came out tops. It eliminated the slipping potential of the luggage tag/cow hitch while still being quite compact and was stronger than bowline.

But really we are splitting hairs and the butterfly and figure 8 will be just fine also.

[Jammer]

I tie two bowlines so that each side of the sheet is on what is supposed to be the standing end of the knot.


Works great, strong, but takes some fiddling to tie it with a single line rather than two separate ones. Not that hard to do though. Perhaps not as compact as some other solutions.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

I tested a number of the single long sheet options - Prusik hitch came out tops. It eliminated the slipping potential of the luggage tag/cow hitch while still being quite compact and was stronger than bowline.

But really we are splitting hairs and the butterfly and figure 8 will be just fine also.

Sorry all, forgot to mention, they are hank on headsail so no bueno on the luggage tag/cow/prusik hitch method. I need a loop that I can shackle and unshackle to the clew.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

I tested a number of the single long sheet options - Prusik hitch came out tops. It eliminated the slipping potential of the luggage tag/cow hitch while still being quite compact and was stronger than bowline.

But really we are splitting hairs and the butterfly and figure 8 will be just fine also.

Interesting solution but I would think a Prusik would come adrift if the sail flogs, it relies on tension to hold it in place and is designed to slide when the tension is released. Very useful knot if you need to 'unload' a jammed line or set a tackle on any line

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Sorry all, forgot to mention, they are hank on headsail so no bueno on the luggage tag/cow/prusik hitch method. I need a loop that I can shackle and unshackle to the clew.

You could hitch a soft shackle to the middle of the line - that would accomplish the objective.

But I am not 'selling' that solution. Typically I personally prefer two sheets.

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Interesting solution but I would think a Prusik would come adrift if the sail flogs, it relies on tension to hold it in place and is designed to slide when the tension is released. Very useful knot if you need to 'unload' a jammed line or set a tackle on any line

In typical doublebraid line, under sheet load, it compresses tightly enough that it will not flog loose.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

You could hitch a soft shackle to the middle of the line - that would accomplish the objective.

But I am not 'selling' that solution. Typically I personally prefer two sheets.



In typical doublebraid line, under sheet load, it compresses tightly enough that it will not flog loose.

I rigged my jib sheets like that last year ... The bight in the sheet chafed against the soft shackle ... So this year i'm going to have to cut it into two sheets anyway.

[gpeacock]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

The problem with ANY knot on a sheet to a clew (especially jib/genoa) is undoing it under load in an emergency. In my experience, when SHTF, knots become very important. It seems to me that a single line sheet (with a knot in the center) is inviting trouble.

I wholeheartedly second the issue of having a single sheet setup with respect to removing it in an emergency.

On one offshore passage we managed to get our genoa hourglassed on the furler during a squall at 3 in the morning. At the time I had a single sheet cowhitched to the clew. Trying to unwrap the genoa and two sheet ends during that emergency proved extremely difficult. Had we been able to remove at least one sheet things would have been significantly easier.

I have since switched to a simple bowline on two sheets and will never use any other knot.. A soft shackle on two sheets with eye splices? That's something different.