Amel downwind rig.

[daletournier]

Ive always been a fan of the Amel pole out system. As anyone here fabricated their own version of the system for their non Amel yacht?

My pole goes along way forward due to the forward lower shroud, i see the amels poles at 90° to the mast a much better idea.

Interested in others views of tge system. It wouldnt be hard to get that setup fabricated for my own boat...just thoughts.

https://fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/...d-sailing-rig/

[Snowpetrel]

Yeah, I've admired it as well. Looks like a very well thought out system. Seems like it would be easy enough to copy.

[RaymondR]

I am prototyping a simpler system which I have been using on my winter cruise. I will post some images when I get to somewhere with faster internet.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I am prototyping a simpler system which I have been using on my winter cruise. I will post some images when I get to somewhere with faster internet.

Great, I'm interested to see the photos.

[Kenomac]

Our Oysters are set up the same way as the Amels enabling us to use the pole at 90 degrees. Instead of two poles, the boom can also be used to pole out the staysail.

After reviewing your Amel photos more closely, our Oyster system is much easier to set up and use.

[daletournier]

Hi Ken, looking at a couple of pictures of oysters (54)online it seems your rig dosent have forward lower shrouds thus enabling you to get the pole out 90° to the mast.

The amel having the pole in two sections and hinged gets around the pole being forward due to a forward lower shroud getting in the way. I think your pole setup is the same as most but you can get it into a better position due the rig setup.

Is this correct.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Ken, looking at a couple of pictures of oysters (54)online it seems your rig dosent have forward lower shrouds thus enabling you to get the pole out 90° to the mast.

The amel having the pole in two sections and hinged gets around the pole being forward due to a forward lower shroud getting in the way. I think your pole setup is the same as most but you can get it into a better position due the rig setup.

Is this correct.

I have no problem getting our pole which is much larger out at 90 degrees to the mast, without all the Amel jungle gym additional stuff. Set up takes one person less than five minutes and can be done while sailing alone. We can also furl our sail in a hurry without taking down the pole, the furling only takes thirty seconds on our 62.

[Snowpetrel]

I think the real benefit of the Amel system is that it makes for an easy way to get more projection out of a shorter pole. Most boats standard pole is pretty close to the 'J' dimension. With the Amel they extend this length out by half the beam without a longer heavier pole, and it stows neatly olong the lifelines, not right across the foredeck.

The 90 degrees thing is a non issue. It's only an advantage if the pole is too short for the LP of the sail. With the right sized pole and sail the pole should be angled forward of the beam, and the sail should be moderately flat.

[Kenomac]

Then why not store a much longer pole vertically on the mast whith an easy one-person deployment mechanism, rather than adding all the unnecessary extra poles and lines as on the Amel? On our 62, the huge cabon fiber pole seems almost weightless with the easy deployment mechanism.

[Snowpetrel]

Yes, that works very nicely as well. Though it could be a bit harder to deploy and stow on a big boat in a rough sea.

[Kenomac]

It couldn’t be any easier. One end of the pole remains attached to the mast at all times, while the other end is controlled by the topping lift and preset fore and aft guides. All I do is crank a verticle winch handle to deploy or retrieve and the pole goes into place. I never need to lift anything and the deck space remains uncluttered.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It couldn’t be any easier. One end of the pole remains attached to the mast at all times, while the other end is controlled by the topping lift and preset fore and aft guides. All I do is crank a verticle winch handle to deploy or retrieve and the pole goes into place. I never need to lift anything and the deck space remains uncluttered.

Ken, is the inboard Mast end of your Pole on a Track or is it at a fixed height with a swivel... Would love to see a photo.

I have admired the Amels setup but i agree yours is the easiest to deploy.

Perhaps the main advantage of Amels system is that you can store 2 of thier two pole setups less conspicuously than 2 long poles?

[Kenomac]

Yes, the upper inboard end of the pole is mounted to a verticle track on the front of the mast which can be lowered into place by grinding on an endless loop of dynema halyard line. I’ll take some pics tomorrow.

[billknny]

There are a couple nice things about the Amel setup that we have found that are not immediately obvious.

For sailing straight downwind most boats, under most sail arrangements, can sometimes roll rather dramatically. The Amel sail plan with symmetrical sails, dampens the roll instead of reinforcing it. The trick is to ease the sheets a bit, and sail with much more twist in the sails than you might think proper.

The ability to instantly, from the helmseat in the cockpit, singlehandedly roll up both sails together, and just leave the poles set, is a true delight. We don't feel the need to shorten sail at dusk even in squally tradewind conditions--until the squall actually approaches. We use the full genoa and "ballooner" until the boat approaches hull speed, then we start to reef them down a bit. Typically about 12 knots apparent wind

The Amel poles are WAY easier to set up than traditional whisker poles. I find the Amel poles on our 52 foot Super Maramu much easier to work with than the traditional whisker pole on my old 40 footer. They--probably--are not as easy as poles that have the inboard on a track that runs up on the mast. (An arrangement that Amel uses on the newer 54, BTW). But to describe them as requiring "gymnastics" is just silly. I don't do gymnastics. Never have--never will. I wouldn't consider it fun, and it certainly wouldn't be pretty.

I don't know of any boats with twin poles on tracks on the mast, so the comparison really isn't apples to apples.

For us, the dual jib arrangement has proven to be a much better sail arrangement than wing n' wing, or poled out jib and staysail. And it is just way easier and more flexible than a spinnaker of any shape. In any winds over about 8 knots true we get faster VMG downwind than we do heading up and reaching.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by billknny

There are a couple nice things about the Amel setup that we have found that are not immediately obvious.

For sailing straight downwind most boats, under most sail arrangements, can sometimes roll rather dramatically. The Amel sail plan with symmetrical sails, dampens the roll instead of reinforcing it. The trick is to ease the sheets a bit, and sail with much more twist in the sails than you might think proper.

The ability to instantly, from the helmseat in the cockpit, singlehandedly roll up both sails together, and just leave the poles set, is a true delight. We don't feel the need to shorten sail at dusk even in squally tradewind conditions--until the squall actually approaches. We use the full genoa and "ballooner" until the boat approaches hull speed, then we start to reef them down a bit. Typically about 12 knots apparent wind

The Amel poles are WAY easier to set up than traditional whisker poles. I find the Amel poles on our 52 foot Super Maramu much easier to work with than the traditional whisker pole on my old 40 footer. They--probably--are not as easy as poles that have the inboard on a track that runs up on the mast. (An arrangement that Amel uses on the newer 54, BTW). But to describe them as requiring "gymnastics" is just silly. I don't do gymnastics. Never have--never will. I wouldn't consider it fun, and it certainly wouldn't be pretty.

I don't know of any boats with twin poles on tracks on the mast, so the comparison really isn't apples to apples.

For us, the dual jib arrangement has proven to be a much better sail arrangement than wing n' wing, or poled out jib and staysail. And it is just way easier and more flexible than a spinnaker of any shape. In any winds over about 8 knots true we get faster VMG downwind than we do heading up and reaching.

And now thanks to this thread, you know of the Oysters which have one or two vertical poles and tracks on their masts.