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JebLostInSpace · 07-06-2020, 08:27

Looking for advice on a problem with my anchor chain jumping off the bow roller while raising anchor single-handed. Most likely a combination of equipment and methodology issues...

When I raise anchor single-handed (almost every time) my current process is as follows:
1. Use the windlass to raise the chain until the rolling hitch on my snub line is inboard.

2. Remove and stow snub line.

3. Walk back to cockpit and bump forward with the engine to take strain off the chain. (I skip this step in calm weather and use the windlass to reel the boat forward. I know, I know, but it is sooooooo much faster when single-handing)

4. Use windlass remote-control to start pulling chain up as I walk back to the bow.

5. Continue pulling chain up until either the chain is straight up and down, or the wind pushes me back, re-straining the anchor chain

6. Repeat steps 3-5 until anchor chain is straight up and down.

7. Finish hauling anchor up onto the rollers and scamper back to the helm before I drift somewhere bad.

The problem is that during the iterations of steps 3-5, the windlass and bow roller are holding the strain of the chain. If winds are more than ~10kts at the time, this is also accompanied by a fair amount of swing on the anchor. Whenever I swing more than maybe 20 deg, the chain pops off the roller

Luckily, the bow pulpit catches the chain so it doesn't grind too much, but I'm stuck leaning out over the pulpit heaving the chain back onto the roller - endangering fingers, toes, and back, not to mention the risk of falling overboard...

So the question is how to keep the chain on the ****** roller?! Do I need to have cheeks welded on? Add a hoop over the top of some sort? (Would that have to be removed to allow the anchor to swing up onto the roller?) Or is there a change I can make to my method that will keep the boat from swinging and straining at the chain after I've removed the snub line? If the answer is an equipment change, anybody have a clever low-budget DIY way to do it so I don't have to have anything fabricated?

Marathon1150 · 07-06-2020, 08:37

Best bet is the hoop. This will also keep the chain on the roller if and when you are anchored in some seriously heavy weather with big rollers coming at you. I wouldn't want an anchor roller without a hoop. In the past I have replaced an existing hoop with a larger one when I changed out the anchor to a Rocna and it wasn't hard. The alternative was no hoop but IMHO that would be unacceptable.

JebLostInSpace · 07-06-2020, 08:44

Thanks for the quick reply! Are these hoops a standard thing I can buy? How do they attach? And most importantly, is there a "redneck" version of this I can use between now and the next time I come into a dock with access to the more legit version?

Mike OReilly · 07-06-2020, 08:49

This used to happen a lot with my roller. I changed the actual nylon roller to a smaller size, which keeps the chain more confined by the roller. This has helped.

Dsanduril · 07-06-2020, 09:03

Also, if the roller is simply round, a "V"-shaped roller with a chain slot may help. The chain then has to work "uphill" before it can jump off the roller. But ours has both cheeks and a hoop, so we don't experience the chain getting out of the roller. Something like this shape:

You can get them with the central slot made to fit your chain specifically, then the chain will ride in that slot and it is very hard for it to get out. Also helps to untwist chain on the way up.

Captn_Black · 07-06-2020, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Looking for advice on a problem with my anchor chain jumping off the bow roller while raising anchor single-handed. Most likely a combination of equipment and methodology issues...

When I raise anchor single-handed (almost every time) my current process is as follows:
1. Use the windlass to raise the chain until the rolling hitch on my snub line is inboard.

2. Remove and stow snub line.

3. Walk back to cockpit and bump forward with the engine to take strain off the chain. (I skip this step in calm weather and use the windlass to reel the boat forward. I know, I know, but it is sooooooo much faster when single-handing)

4. Use windlass remote-control to start pulling chain up as I walk back to the bow.

5. Continue pulling chain up until either the chain is straight up and down, or the wind pushes me back, re-straining the anchor chain

6. Repeat steps 3-5 until anchor chain is straight up and down.

7. Finish hauling anchor up onto the rollers and scamper back to the helm before I drift somewhere bad.

The problem is that during the iterations of steps 3-5, the windlass and bow roller are holding the strain of the chain. If winds are more than ~10kts at the time, this is also accompanied by a fair amount of swing on the anchor. Whenever I swing more than maybe 20 deg, the chain pops off the roller

Luckily, the bow pulpit catches the chain so it doesn't grind too much, but I'm stuck leaning out over the pulpit heaving the chain back onto the roller - endangering fingers, toes, and back, not to mention the risk of falling overboard...

So the question is how to keep the chain on the ****** roller?! Do I need to have cheeks welded on? Add a hoop over the top of some sort? (Would that have to be removed to allow the anchor to swing up onto the roller?) Or is there a change I can make to my method that will keep the boat from swinging and straining at the chain after I've removed the snub line? If the answer is an equipment change, anybody have a clever low-budget DIY way to do it so I don't have to have anything fabricated?

My method is about the same as yours. I have a pin that secures across the forward upper corner of the roller for this purpose, but I don't use it as I don't experience this issue and it just makes the final haul into the roller more difficult. My bowroller is pretty large though, which helps.

SVHarmonie · 07-06-2020, 09:16

I gather what’s happening is that the bow sails off to one side, and with a side pull, the chain jumps completely off the bow roller, and its bracket. While a v-Grooved roller is an excellent idea for a chain rode (they are NOT sized to a specific chain, by the way.) it will certainly not help with this problem.

The issue is with the design of the bow roller bracket. It NEEDS to have a method to prevent the chain from leaping out under side load. It is possible it used to, but doesn’t anymore.

You can get a good idea of what might help just by walking the docks and looking at other boats. A “hoop” is one. A removable pin is another. The hoop needs to be big enough that the anchor shank clears it as it comes up and over. A pin can be removed at the end of the retrieval process to make room for the anchor. In a really clever design, the pin can then be reinserted to lock the anchor in place.

Dsanduril · 07-06-2020, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

(they are NOT sized to a specific chain, by the way.)

I didn't say they "are", I said they "can be". Ours certainly is, and if you read around here you'll find a number of other CF users with similarly cut bow rollers who swear by them. The slot is cut to just over the diameter of the chain (our chain is 10mm and the slot is ~11mm) and the slot is just a bit deeper than the link that sticks down. There is a flat stepped area that is just wider than the width of a link of chain laying flat. This forces the chain to come up in a particular orientation.

For the OP, with the side pull, if the chain is resting in such a slot it has to jump out, which is certainly possible, it does happen, it just makes it harder for it to happen. Replacing the roller may be the easiest option, and it works the majority of the time, well, maybe that's enough. Whether it will work or not, well, I can't say without actually seeing the setup.

Marathon1150 · 07-06-2020, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks for the quick reply! Are these hoops a standard thing I can buy? How do they attach? And most importantly, is there a "redneck" version of this I can use between now and the next time I come into a dock with access to the more legit version?

If you decide to use a hoop, they can be made from stainless rod - the one that I mention in my first post was made for me by a local metal fabricator. I did the installation which wasn't difficult because I was replacing the previous version which was too small. Thus, the holes were already drilled in the roller. If you don't have holes in the roller for a hoop, it will be a bit of a job to drill them but not impossible.

Using a pin as mentioned by others will also work and depending on your anchor and roller, can be used to secure the anchor in the roller.

In either case there my be some drilling required. Pins in various sizes can be bought off the shelf - I just did a quick check on two websites, including Defender, and I don't see any hoops for sale.

JebLostInSpace · 07-06-2020, 14:07

Thanks for all the input everyone! I've attached a picture of the current roller. The problem I see now is that there is nothing above the roller to attach any kind of pin or hoop to...

My only thought is that maybe the bolt currently acting as the roller's axle could support end points for a hoop, but that would mean an awfully narrow hoop. Any thoughts?

SVHarmonie · 07-06-2020, 14:28

what happens if you use the LOWER roller??? Put the chain UNDER the upper roller.

If your anchor fits your problem is solved...

JebLostInSpace · 07-06-2020, 14:34

I'll double check when I raise anchor tomorrow morning, but almost certain it doesn't fit, sadly

Cheechako · 07-06-2020, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks for all the input everyone! I've attached a picture of the current roller. The problem I see now is that there is nothing above the roller to attach any kind of pin or hoop to...

My only thought is that maybe the bolt currently acting as the roller's axle could support end points for a hoop, but that would mean an awfully narrow hoop. Any thoughts?

Your chain is supposed to be between the two rollers on that type. maybe someone moved it up there because the anchor shank wont fit? That roller assembly is meant for a Danforth style anchor IIRC.
At any rate, mod it so it sits on the lower roller. I'd get a better roller than those while you are at it, something a big bigger diameter but not huge. You can always just put a SS bolt in where the top roller is to make more room.... or a loop, or a SS bar bent into a loop. Normally a loop is held on by the bolt going through the roller up there.

Mr B · 07-06-2020, 14:49

Redneck version I just made for myself,
I pull the anchor up by hand, I have two anchors, 24 Kg and 40 KG,
The hoop on the end stops the chain jumping off the bowspit,
The chain stopper or Pawl grabs the chain when I let off the chain a bit and holds it in place, Stops it running out again,

The anchor can be at any height on withdrawal, It just hangs there,

To release the chain back into the water, I just flip the stopper over and the chain slides out under the stopper smoothly.

The pins also hold the anchor in place when travelling,

Cheers Brian,