Are twin headsails on a 43 cat a good idea.

[Popeye46]

I bought a 43 foot sailing cat 2 years ago and I’ve been sailing off the east coast of Australia. My wife flys to my destinations and I usually can’t find crew so I sail alone.

I find most of my sailing to be down wind with the port or starboard quarters. I have a spinnaker however I am not comfortable deploring that on my own so I usually have the furling headsail out and I made up a short pole about 3.5 meters which I attach to the headsail.

I am thinking off installing a prodder and have twin furling headsails which would be easier to control than a spinnaker. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Popeye46

I bought a 43 foot sailing cat 2 years ago and I’ve been sailing off the east coast of Australia. My wife flys to my destinations and I usually can’t find crew so I sail alone.

I find most of my sailing to be down wind with the port or starboard quarters. I have a spinnaker however I am not comfortable deploring that on my own so I usually have the furling headsail out and I made up a short pole about 3.5 meters which I attach to the headsail.

I am thinking off installing a prodder and have twin furling headsails which would be easier to control than a spinnaker. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Might be worth a try

I personally don’t like two sails on one headstay

And I don’t like poles set to leeward



First perfect your windward sail, whisper pole set up

The whole system should be refined and detailed for single crew operation from the cockpit

[Popeye46]

Thank you for your response, as far as loading on the mast, what is the difference between a spinnaker and two headsails, sure there would be extra load on the centre beam via the prodder which should be addressed.

[slug]

Don’t know what the difference in mast compression is between the two options
Spinnakers in general are hard to handle. They must be put up and taken down

A headsail on a is almost permanent

A poled out headsail , correctly flown , is very effective
The best way to add even more sail area is a good question

[billknny]

Twin head sails can be a great option, or a PITA, depending on the set up.

First, however, they are rare on monohulls these days, and really, really rare on cats. They are really only are useful >160 Deg to the true wind. ALMOST always cats are fast enough that they don't make their best VMG by going straight downwind. That and MOST cats carry larger mains and smaller headsails.

On our 52 foot mono, we make better VMG straight downwind with twin sails in winds of >8 knots. Less than that, we head up to 150 TWA, broad reach, and go faster.

The key for us is that we can easily set the second headsail, and furl BOTH of them if needed. Easy to run well over 1400 sq ft of sail from the cockpit. Here is how our boat rigs them:

https://fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/...d-sailing-rig/

Running two sails on the same foil is not a good idea unless you have a way of furling them. Dropping a large sail out of a foil track in a sudden squall is a real... exciting... experience.

[Popeye46]

I propose to have separate forestays and furlers for both headsails and maybe have a whisker pole for each

[robert sailor]

You might not need poles on a Catamaran. Can't see why twin headsails wouldn't work ok, certainly much easier than a spinaker and even easier than wing on wing as you can sail 30 degrees either side of DDW. A chute would be faster but many cruisers don't like to fly them at night.

[robert sailor]

By the way if your furler has 2 slots you can operate twins on the same single furler.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

By the way if your furler has 2 slots you can operate twins on the same single furler.

Yes, you can RAISE as second sail on the foil, but you can't furl them unless you raise them on a single halyard.

What a pain... drop genoa on deck. Attach second sail to swivel. Raise both sails while controlling both sails laying on deck and feeding two bolt ropes...

When it is time to take down the second headsail, you have to drop TWO sails out of the foil and control both of them...

Obviously not impossible, but impractical in the extreme.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by billknny

Yes, you can RAISE as second sail on the foil, but you can't furl them unless you raise them on a single halyard.

What a pain... drop genoa on deck. Attach second sail to swivel. Raise both sails while controlling both sails laying on deck and feeding two bolt ropes...

When it is time to take down the second headsail, you have to drop TWO sails out of the foil and control both of them...

Obviously not impossible, but impractical in the extreme.

Not at all my friend, it's actually easy peasy...you have your twins set up so they both are equal in height to attach to the swivel. You can adjust the base if it's out a bit. You use 1 halyard to hoist both sails. When your sailing and you want to reef you are bring it both sails at the same time, works very slick.. I've done it myself often and in really light air it is actually faster than a chute.

[barnakiel]

I do not see where two headsails can be easier to control than a single sail.


In fact, sailing downwind under spinnaker ON A CAT is the easiest thing under the sun, by far.


Provided you have the right spinnaker.



b.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not see where two headsails can be easier to control than a single sail.


In fact, sailing downwind under spinnaker ON A CAT is the easiest thing under the sun, by far.


Provided you have the right spinnaker.



b.

Well you are correct of course, it's always more work to control 2 sails vs 1 sail. If the one sail is a chute that's a great choice but less experienced cruisers often don't want to fly a chute at night and tend to want to only use them in lighter air.
Twins have always worked well on monos as they have very little helm and tend to be extremely easy on self steering gear and autopilots. The question was asked, can you do this on a Catamaran and the answer was sure you can. I'm not promoting it just answering the original question. For a less experienced crew it's much easier to deal with twins than a chute.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Not at all my friend, it's actually easy peasy...you have your twins set up so they both are equal in height to attach to the swivel. You can adjust the base if it's out a bit. You use 1 halyard to hoist both sails. When your sailing and you want to reef you are bring it both sails at the same time, works very slick.. I've done it myself often and in really light air it is actually faster than a chute.

"In really light air" I'd totally agree. But...

Bringing down one big sail out of a foil is a pain in heavy air. If I am "less than unenthusiastic" about needing to handle TWO of at the same time, most people would understand...

But if it works for you, on your boat, have at it!

Don't get me wrong, I have thousands of miles under a furling twin headsail rig, and really love it, but it was carefully designed to make sail handling (one at a time!) easy and safe even in heavy winds.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by billknny

"In really light air" I'd totally agree. But...

Bringing down one big sail out of a foil is a pain in heavy air. If I am "less than unenthusiastic" about needing to handle TWO of at the same time, most people would understand...

But if it works for you, on your boat, have at it!

Don't get me wrong, I have thousands of miles under a furling twin headsail rig, and really love it, but it was carefully designed to make sail handling (one at a time!) easy and safe even in heavy winds.

It's been multi years since I've used twin headsails but I've found them to be very easy. Unless you have damage to one of the sails or a major wind change there are few reasons youd need to take them down. You can reef them down to next to nothing in size for winds in excess of 40 knots and if you do have a shift big enough to have to start reaching you can simply allow both sails to lay on each other using the outside sails sheets. That's not a good answer for days of sailing but it certainly works for a few hours.
Twins were always the answer for sailing really deep angles on monos, the plus is that they are very flexible to 30 degrees either side of downwind. It's on those angles that cruising chutes are next to useless. The downside was you rolled alot but of course on a Catamaran that's not an issue.
Personally we fly a spinaker in winds below 15 apparent where we can't get hull speed and I really don't have a problem flying it through the night if things are settled.
As far as getting twins down I deal with them like I do a chute, I simply sail an angle that puts them in the Lee of the main and allow both to drift behind the main and then down they come. I only take one down and bag it and yes it is some work but if you are in settled trade winds and your on the conservative side you can use twins.
Personally as I said I prefer a racing chute where I'm able to sail at any deep angle I want but it's not the best choice for many.

[Popeye46]

Hey Guys
There is no “we” in my senario I don’t have a crew. I am 73 years old, retired 20 years ago, I live in Ballina NSW where sailing boats are as popular as a pork chop at a jewish wedding or perhaps these days I should say muslim wedding. All halyards and sheets are controlled from the helm station including the reefing so it is set up for single handed sailing.
However I have to allow for the unexpected such as last week I was sailing from Newcastle to Ballina 20 knt S to SE winds following sea with an easterly swell. I had the Jib/ headsail poled out with a whisker pole I made up (can’t believe the prices they want for a simple pole). 1am off Yamba the clew was torn off the Jib, no probs, I furled in the Jib and continued under Main. But even though the furling sheet was locked and I tied off the furling drum so it could not turn either way, a quarter of the Jib was out and flapping. Had to unlock the drum roll in the Jib, secure the drum then wind the spinnaker halyard around the Jib. In a few hours I would be entering Ballina bar with an outgoing tide with a 2 to 3 metre waves, not good, did not want the Jib to unravel again. With life jacket and safety harness hooked on to the life lines shimmied up the forestay to the Jib clew and tied a couple of occy straps around the jib.

This is not a pissing competition I love sailing by myself particularly at night, I am not religious but I do feel a presence there. That said it is a dangerous pastime although I don’t have much choice, there are not many people I would take aboard and the ones that I would are working and just don’t have the time.
Apologies for my rambling but I need to have sails that I can furl or reef from the helm station.
Thanks for listening