Best GYBE Preventer ?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by gamayun

What do you mean by this? I can control the lines, but it doesn't matter when there's too much friction, and the boom brake is ineffective by itself when there's too little friction. To me, the sole reason for a Dutchman system is for those times you screw up. How does one "get it just right" especially when there are different conditions and different forces acting on the boom? This has been truly baffling to me.

I tested a bunch of them for a mag, and this was my boggle. I could smooth the jibe if I had the tension just right, but with all that frogging around, it was easier to simply pull in the sheet, center the traveller, and then let it back out. First, I had a wide traveler. Second, I use nylon traveler line, which take the sting out anyway.


The only thing I found brakes useful for was as a light duty, releaseable preventer to prevent nuisance jibes when running wing and wing and changing tacks frequently (like going down a river). Otherwise, a standard preventer rigged to a winch was better.



So I took them off and put them in a drawer at home. Maybe on a different boat, but not on mine. It think there is a reason they are scarce as hens teeth here, less than 1 boat in 100 (I counted).

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I tested a bunch of them for a mag, and this was my boggle. I could smooth the jibe if I had the tension just right, but with all that frogging around, it was easier to simply pull in the sheet, center the traveller, and then let it back out. First, I had a wide traveler. Second, I use nylon traveler line, which take the sting out anyway.


The only thing I found brakes useful for was as a light duty, releaseable preventer to prevent nuisance jibes when running wing and wing and changing tacks frequently (like going down a river). Otherwise, a standard preventer rigged to a winch was better.



So I took them off and put them in a drawer at home. Maybe on a different boat, but not on mine. It think there is a reason they are scarce as hens teeth here, less than 1 boat in 100 (I counted).

Your describing of course an intentional Gybe, which is not why I have a brake.
Yes it’s not hard to control an intentional Gybe.
Brake is just too easy to use, all you do is tension the lines, there is no frogging around, what were you doing that you would call frogging?

[tDot]

Originally Posted by expatria

Thank you again for all your great suggestions. It seems that most are happy with the Dutchman and the Wichard systems. Certainly has given me lots of food for thought. I'm leaning towards the Wichard system, but oh why do we need 'special' line to go with it? And the Rescue-8 is looking good also.

You asked earlier in the thread about which came first, the Wichard or the Rescue 8. The wichard is a copy of a common friction device used in belaying in the climbing/high angle rigging/rescue worlds. There are alot of similar devices out there. Some with more options on how to change the amounts of friction.

Personally I would only use a dedicated line with this system. The loops and turns that the line is forced to take by the friction device will cause twists in the core of the rope. The type of jacket on the rope will also increase/decrease the level of friction between the line and the device, so it is also important.

[expatria]

Thank you all for your many standard and clever suggestions re a suitable Boom Brake or Preventer. Lots of food for thought!!

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Your describing of course an intentional Gybe, which is not why I have a brake.
Yes it’s not hard to control an intentional Gybe.
Brake is just too easy to use, all you do is tension the lines, there is no frogging around, what were you doing that you would call frogging?

I think what he was referring to was that if you just tension the lines you basically just have a preventer not a brake. When you “accidentally” gybe you back the main instead of letting it go across and you have to “frog” with it to release and keep you from heading up and getting overpowered if the wind is up. You can do the exact same thing with a preventer on a winch.
I have the Walder and I intentionally gybe with it routinely to try to “dial it in” to the wind speed and it is hard. I do have to agree that the double preventer system I used to use was only a little bit harder to use.
I do agree with thinwater that on a light wind downwind run it is convenient but otherwise I am less impressed with the usefulness despite the fact that I use it all the time.[emoji4]

JIm

[tDot]

Just a thought as well. Most boom brakes attach to the middle portion of the boom. This can cause some very intense shock loads to the boom in a location it wasnt designed for it.

Preventers attached to the middle are even worse.

Boom is fixed at one end by the goose neck and it is pulled at the other end by the sail. Now try to control all that force in the middle of the boom....

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by tDot

Boom is fixed at one end by the goose neck and it is pulled at the other end by the sail. Now try to control all that force in the middle of the boom....

That is why it’s my belief that you have to let it go, your just trying to keep it from getting a running start and building velocity and then suddenly coming tight.
There should be no shock load at all, because it’s tight to begin with, a shock would require at least some slack.
However at the beginning I said that it seems that most experienced Sailors prefer preventers or so it seems.
I assume because they can achieve the same purpose without having to buy a gimmick piece of hardware, anyone should be able to knock up a preventer with items already on most cruising boats?

In six years I’ve had one bad accidental Gybe, and it was really only luck and I guess good components that prevented damage, it certainly wasn’t skill on my side.
I’d prefer not to repeat that learning experience, I’d like to try for one trial learning on that.

Give that main a good running start and have about 10 feet of slack sheet with over 20 kts of wind, it’s amazing the forces it can generate, it would easily be able to kill for example.

[thinwater]

What I was implying was this:


If I'm using a brake as a preventer, it works OK, just tension the line pretty hard; it's still easy to release.


However, for intentional jibes, it is easier to manage the sheet and traveler than to fiddle with the correct brake line tension, which change with the wind.


On a cat, with midships cleats, it is actually quite easy to rig a functional preventer that is easy to adjust. Not much different from a boom brake, but a little more stable.

[tDot]

I personally only use an end of boom preventer. Its run back to a winch and allows for an easily controlled jibe.

Looked hard at the Walder boom brake, but as best as I could tell, it required two winches rigged at the same time to work effectively. I dont have two spare winches.

But I do have have one spare winch on the windward side. So I spliced the components required for a boom preventer, most components were on the boat.

The only thing our of the ordinary that I did was to splice a piece of 10mm dyneema with an eye on each end, one for each side of the boom. They live on the boom, so I went a little high on the strength requirements as I allowed for some UV degradation.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I tested a bunch of them for a mag, and this was my boggle. I could smooth the jibe if I had the tension just right, but with all that frogging around, it was easier to simply pull in the sheet, center the traveller, and then let it back out. First, I had a wide traveler. Second, I use nylon traveler line, which take the sting out anyway.


The only thing I found brakes useful for was as a light duty, releaseable preventer to prevent nuisance jibes when running wing and wing and changing tacks frequently (like going down a river). Otherwise, a standard preventer rigged to a winch was better.



So I took them off and put them in a drawer at home. Maybe on a different boat, but not on mine. It think there is a reason they are scarce as hens teeth here, less than 1 boat in 100 (I counted).

I agree with this, but I do keep mine on for that accidental gybe, I agree with the "all that frogging around " different conditions require different amounts of friction, not easy to get it just right.

I probably wouldn't buy one again, mine is the big Dutchman, not cheap, I would just do what I used to do when running , rope from the end of the boom to a block up front and then run line to cockpit, easy,works and cheap.

[charliehows]

i treat the boom brake as a bit of fun in harbour but in a reasonable breeze at sea it is solid gold. Once I know it is set right (I discovered the first time i had an accidental gybe and the boom ambled across so smoothly i almost didnt notice i'd gybed; after that i set it and do a test with the mainsheet ready to back up) i simply gybe without much of a care. Its better to set it up stiff so it acts as a sort of preventer anyway, but when it does go it is well controlled. Where the brake is attached to the boom doesnt matter because its function is to dissipate the power that builds through the gybe - its the focus of the power of the gybe when the boom is finally stopped that does the damage.

[Dehler 25]

Any idea who makes the gizmo? The attachment doesn't give any clues. I also am not a fan of mid boom attachments as it seems that the loading is rather large, but many seem to function. Do you use the vang attachment point?

[PeterSailor]

Capt. Don Stainless Steel Boat Boom Brake.

Any figure 8 climbing descender would do the job. Got one for 24$ (Canadian that is). Good for 45KN

[Flemming Torp]

On my X-342 - a smaller boat than yours - I installed a very simple boom brake using an "8 device"- used by climbers.
It is easily controlled via the winch in the cockpit.
[URL="https://photos.app.goo.gl/n869j4DZH1q7k1469"]

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dehler 25

Any idea who makes the gizmo? The attachment doesn't give any clues. I also am not a fan of mid boom attachments as it seems that the loading is rather large, but many seem to function. Do you use the vang attachment point?

Mine attaches just aft of the Vang, it’s an attachment that slides into the boom, my boom has a track on the bottom. I feel certain that in my cause the boom is much stronger than the attachment point, but as the attachment is just a U shape welded to a plate, that it is the weak link. I wouldn’t feel comfortable using it as a preventer, my feeling is that it would eventually break and with the sail already at a high wind load when it broke, that would be even worse than if it wasn’t prevented at all.

If I were to use a preventer I’d want a way to distribute the load on the boom, maybe a strong strap wrapped around the boom or something similar, I couldn’t do that as mine is a Furling boom but maybe large “fish” plates riveted to the boom?