Best Way To Attach Rings Through A Reef Cringle

[Snowpetrel]

Yeah, I welded a big wichard hook with a stainless wire bale. (not a snap shackle, far too fiddly) onto the gooseneck. Real easy to slip a loop of line over it with one hand, and no chance of it dropping off.

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[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

If you don't have the snap hooks on your boom as uncivilized suggests (something I will do on my boom at the next round of modifications) make sure that your loops, rings, or whatever you use are just the right length. That means that you have to use some effort to pull them down and over your horns so that they spring into place on the horns. That way you don't have to worry about them falling off as you tension the halyard.

The unused ones will stay in place too - us high latitude fools often have four reefs in the main so on the fourth reef there are three unused loops hanging around.

One other option, even if you normally use horns on the boom. Is to take some type of snap shackle, & attach it to the spar, near the gooseneck, with a piece of Spectra. With the line sized to length, so that it's easy to snap it onto your reef cringles or rings.
Likely it's easier & cheaper than welding bits onto your gooseneck fitting.

Just make sure, if you do this, that it doesn't pull parts of the main down onto the horns, or other areas, thus causing you chafing problems.

[Snowpetrel]

Heres the loop systen I ended up using. Could be webbing, but I just used Dyneena. Maybe a soft shackle would work well. Not the jackline on the slide near the 2nd reef.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Heres the loop systen I ended up using. Could be webbing, but I just used Dyneena. Maybe a soft shackle would work well. Not the jackline on the slide near the 2nd reef.

What's the jackline for Ben. Something to hold onto and haul the sail down with?

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

What's the jackline for Ben. Something to hold onto and haul the sail down with?

It slacks of that slides near the reef point so you can easily hook the clew onto the horns. If the sail is well designed with well spaced slides it might not need one, but even then they really can help with the third and fourth reefs when the stack height starts getting awkward. With a well set up system you don't remove any slides from the track.

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[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

It slacks of that slides near the reef point so you can easily hook the clew onto the horns. If the sail is well designed with well spaced slides it might not need one, but even then they really can help with the third and fourth reefs when the stack height starts getting awkward. With a well set up system you don't remove any slides from the track.

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Ahh yes. I had webbing handles put on the sail when it was built for that reason. Removing slides is a bit old school! My sail and track was originally set up with an open gate for removing slides but I closed the gate and put longer loops and rings on the new main so there is no messing about. Ihave the schaffer (sp?) batt cars on traditional slides and can reef on any point of sail so usually reef downwind.

I plan on lowering my gooseneck or even moving to a deck fixing one day so that when reefing your pushing down on the sail rather then pulling down even when on your knees. Reduces loading on the mast, and gives you another option to jury rig by simply standing the boom up if you drop the stick.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

Ahh yes. I had webbing handles put on the sail when it was built for that reason. Removing slides is a bit old school! My sail and track was originally set up with an open gate for removing slides but I closed the gate and put longer loops and rings on the new main so there is no messing about. Ihave the schaffer (sp?) batt cars on traditional slides and can reef on any point of sail so usually reef downwind.

I plan on lowering my gooseneck or even moving to a deck fixing one day so that when reefing your pushing down on the sail rather then pulling down even when on your knees. Reduces loading on the mast, and gives you another option to jury rig by simply standing the boom up if you drop the stick.

Sounds like a handy trick to remember, the nest time I'm mainsail shopping. Ditto on the one mentioned by Snowpetrel.

Also, a tip regarding your boom plans. If you move it down to the deck, such will definitely affect your outhaul settings & setup. As the further out the boom swings, the more the relative distance to the clew changes.
BTW, what would you do in terms of a vang, if the boom's mounted so low?

If you do make such a change to the boom's mounting, it would be Great if you could document it on here. Not to mention, very much appreciated.
Plus, there's a member on here who has his boat's boom mounted to a deck pod, slightly aft of the mast. So, he might be willing to share some thoughts on such with you.

[estarzinger]

Btw, another great source for dyneema webbing are climbing shops. They sell it both by the foot and in premade loops. Climbers use it for slings and runners.

The premade slings are sewn.

Climbers (generally) use webbing over cord for slings and runners. I have always assumed this was because webbing is so much less sensitive to bend ratio than cord . . . But I have never asked.

[Bluebeard]

Climbers use webbing ( or tape ) for a number of reasons, it is less sensitive to loss of strength at bends, it doesn't roll like cord and it will slip into a smaller crack than cord.

But having read the many, varied and complicated suggestions for attaching rings to a cringle, this is how climbing rope expertise would help.
Lash the two rings together through the cringle with light line, almost anything will be strong enough given the number of turns possible ( this has basically been suggested above) but the demon tweak is to tie the two ends with a double fishermans knot. This is like a fishermans but with an extra turn on each side of the knot - google it.
They are a neat knot that doesn't need long tails and they don't come undone.
KISS

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Climbers (generally) use webbing over cord for slings and runners. I have always assumed this was because webbing is so much less sensitive to bend ratio than cord . . . But I have never asked.

It's much more difficult to accidentally cut too. Chafe resistance is higher.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Sounds like a handy trick to remember, the nest time I'm mainsail shopping. Ditto on the one mentioned by Snowpetrel.

Also, a tip regarding your boom plans. If you move it down to the deck, such will definitely affect your outhaul settings & setup. As the further out the boom swings, the more the relative distance to the clew changes.
BTW, what would you do in terms of a vang, if the boom's mounted so low?

If you do make such a change to the boom's mounting, it would be Great if you could document it on here. Not to mention, very much appreciated.
Plus, there's a member on here who has his boat's boom mounted to a deck pod, slightly aft of the mast. So, he might be willing to share some thoughts on such with you.

I've looked at a few boats set up like this. Some high latitude such as "L'ile d'Elle" use it. Actually a boat that ticks a lot of your boxes.

I tend to use a tackle to the toe rail for a vang. It works as a preventer, stabilises the boom nicely working with the sheet and if you want more twist in light airs haul up the topping lift. Those three together give you rock solid boom positioning - set the windvane and retire to the dodger... Sure the purists don't like it. An alternative would be to use a pusher vang aka Bruce Schwabs "Ocean Planet" open 60.

If when I do it I'll document it online. Won't be for a while and I might trade in for a cat and stay in the tropics yet

[petit bateau]

Originally Posted by Bluebeard

Climbers use webbing ( or tape ) for a number of reasons, it is less sensitive to loss of strength at bends, it doesn't roll like cord and it will slip into a smaller crack than cord.

But having read the many, varied and complicated suggestions for attaching rings to a cringle, this is how climbing rope expertise would help.
Lash the two rings together through the cringle with light line, almost anything will be strong enough given the number of turns possible ( this has basically been suggested above) but the demon tweak is to tie the two ends with a double fishermans knot. This is like a fishermans but with an extra turn on each side of the knot - google it.
They are a neat knot that doesn't need long tails and they don't come undone.
KISS

A very common knot used in multipitch alpine climbing is to tie two ropes together with the double-fishermans knot, but with a reef knot in the middle. If you just use the double fishermans you will never get the knot undone if it has been fully loaded. By putting the reef in the middle (i.e. that is the first knot) and then backing it up with the double fishermans on either side, you end up with a very snug package (important as the climbers use this to pull down abseil ropes, so you want the minimum of snagging risk) that can be reliably undone, but which will not slip.

This can also be done on small cord as well as larger 8, 9, 11mm ropes. So it may be a helpful knot to know in this circumstance.

[Bowdrie]

Hanging all kinds of metal devices on the tack grommets with loops and webbing and sewing/splicing just adds complication of little value.
And reefing hooks themselves have caused many a torn sail if a fold gets caught under them and someone starts hoisting in a zealous manner.
Not to mention fumbling around with metal parts with cold/wet hands.
Forget all that claptrap.
Dead-end a line on deck or mast base.
Run that line up-and-thru the reef grommet, making it long enough to reach a cleat on the mast when the sails at full hoist, (no reef).
You put a figure 8 knot in the line on the downside of the grommet so the line can't be lost aloft.
When you reef you simply pull the line down till the reef grommet is where you want it and cleat-off the line.
This gives you a two-part tackle to pull down the reef grommet.
When you're un-reefing you simply cast the line off the cleat and hoist away.
Fast easy and foolproof, and your fingers are never messing around with hardware and there are no metal parts flapping around to bust you in the face.

Edit: PS, give credit to whom credit is due, thank you Lin and Larry Pardey.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Hanging all kinds of metal devices on the tack grommets with loops and webbing and sewing/splicing just adds complication of little value.
And reefing hooks themselves have caused many a torn sail if a fold gets caught under them and someone starts hoisting in a zealous manner.
Not to mention fumbling around with metal parts with cold/wet hands.
Forget all that claptrap.
Dead-end a line on deck or mast base.
Run that line up-and-thru the reef grommet, making it long enough to reach a cleat on the mast when the sails at full hoist, (no reef).
You put a figure 8 knot in the line on the downside of the grommet so the line can't be lost aloft.
When you reef you simply pull the line down till the reef grommet is where you want it and cleat-off the line.
This gives you a two-part tackle to pull down the reef grommet.
When you're un-reefing you simply cast the line off the cleat and hoist away.
Fast easy and foolproof, and your fingers are never messing around with hardware and there are no metal parts flapping around to bust you in the face.

Edit: PS, give credit to whom credit is due, thank you Lin and Larry Pardey.

I use this method to pull down my tack as well. Works a treat.