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Old 22-11-2020, 14:35   #16
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

Okay, I pulled the sail off and raised the halyard with just a line on the other end to pull it back down. I could get the sheet all the way to the top but it twisted probably 5 rotations on the way up. Once up, it took a fair bit of effort to pull it back down. I had to kind of feed the halyard through the mast then pull down on the line.

Attached photo of the block that attaches to the main and the top car.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oc8Hh2XAiKgDv9GJ8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6iB65uLmCaQBheoZ8
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Old 22-11-2020, 14:45   #17
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

You have a block attached to the headboard?
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Old 22-11-2020, 15:34   #18
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

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You have a block attached to the headboard?
Yes. The block in the picture was attached to the headboard.
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Old 22-11-2020, 16:37   #19
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

OK. Something is definitely not right - it should NOT be that hard. Looks like you have roller bearing cars - the weight of the sail should mean they freely FALL down the mast track without any effort from you as soon as you let the halyard go. The halyard should not twist on the way up & should not need feeding into the mast to get it back down. Your halyard may have jumped its sheave at the masthead & be jammed in a gap beside it. OR You may have something fouled up inside the mast. Any obvious missing halyards or electric cables?
Call in a rigger OR you might try removing all your halyards (ONLY after very securely fitting strong but thinner mouse lines as messengers to get them back on - read how at https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?thr...lyards.385056/ ). Pull the messenger lines back & fore to feel if any friction.
Anyway - those mainsail cars dont look that well looked after - looks like they might need some work so they roll freely?
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Old 22-11-2020, 16:48   #20
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

By the way, why is there a block attached to your headboard? How does that work? I am not at all familiar with your boat but I am wondering just how heavy your mainsail is?
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Old 22-11-2020, 18:50   #21
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

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Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
By the way, why is there a block attached to your headboard? How does that work? I am not at all familiar with your boat but I am wondering just how heavy your mainsail is?
I'm on a lagoon 410. That's how it was when I got it. As I said somewhere in here before, I can lift it without a winch until over half way, then it gets harder until it gets just impossible about 10 feet from the top.
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Old 22-11-2020, 18:54   #22
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

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The halyard should not twist on the way up & should not need feeding into the mast to get it back down. Your halyard may have jumped its sheave at the masthead & be jammed in a gap beside it. OR You may have something fouled up inside the mast. Any obvious missing halyards or electric cables?
My plan for tomorrow was to try to send up the head car by itself. I thought there was a lot of twist in the halyard but not sure what to make of that. It twists as it goes up and the twist comes out on the way back down. Maybe because of the block on the headboard?

With everything hooked up, the sail does fall freely from as far up as I can get it, there's just something amiss in that last ~10 feet it seems.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:21   #23
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

Yes, send the car up. But the block on the headboard? Why? Does the halyard hang down from the top to give a mechanical advantage going around the block and back up again? I haven't seen that before, but then I don't get out much. I'm curious how you know the halyard is twisting? I have never watched mine to see if it does and I don't know why it would cause a problem if it did. I still think you'll need to get up there yourself to see the track close up. When you sight up the track can you see anything amiss, like a bend or kink in it up there? Try binoculars too.

on edit... ok I am a little slow. Yes, if the doubled up halyard is twisting then this thing won't work.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:23   #24
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

that sure sounds like a track problem coupled with twist in the halyard. IIRC there are often twist problems with 2:1 halyards... try a search here on CF on that subject for additional insights. I'd be going up the mast and checking the track as my first response as of now.

Jim

PS Another diagnostic would be to try hoisting something heavy up on that halyard. If you can get it all the way up, then a track problem is even more likely.
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Old 22-11-2020, 22:18   #25
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

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Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
Why 2 crew? Main rope & safety rope in case the main breaks...

It's a safety precaution. If you don't know what you're doing, having two more people around that don't know what they are doing makes you feel safer.


All kidding a side, training and practice are important, although where people get those is variable.
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Old 23-11-2020, 00:02   #26
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

A Couple of things to try:


1. When you attach the block to the headboard make sure the block can not swivel more than 90 degrees to avoid twist. If the block does not have a swivel lock then lash it in place with some dyneema cord.


2. To see if it is a jam in the main halyard, try using the topping lift. Take the main halyard and connect to rear end of boom and tighen. Loosen topping lift, disconnect and use it as a single line halyard. You should learn how to do this in the event you lose the main halyard anyway. This will determine if it is a halyard issue or a sail track issue. The sail will feel twice as heavy as the original halyard, so will need to winch.



3. The sail track fastenings do come undone and the track join can move out of alignment when under pressure, it could even be lower down , look at all the sail track joins.


4. Mainsheet / boom should be loose.


5. Top batten ends should be kept clear of stays and topping lift.


6. Other thing to watch is that the topping lift is on the correct side of the main halyard and there is no cross over at the top.
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Old 23-11-2020, 03:40   #27
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

The small bit of string might be a messenger wrapped around the halyard.
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Old 23-11-2020, 13:50   #28
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

Sounds as if you have a 2 part halyard, if so it may be the way you make up the halyard, should be a figure 8 or try installing a swivel at the masthead...had the same problem on our new to us cat...it can be fixed
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Old 23-11-2020, 14:06   #29
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderIVth View Post
Okay, I pulled the sail off and raised the halyard with just a line on the other end to pull it back down. I could get the sheet all the way to the top but it twisted probably 5 rotations on the way up. Once up, it took a fair bit of effort to pull it back down. I had to kind of feed the halyard through the mast then pull down on the line.

Attached photo of the block that attaches to the main and the top car.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oc8Hh2XAiKgDv9GJ8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6iB65uLmCaQBheoZ8

It's not unusual for there to be several problems, so don't expect a single solution. And you have been given many good suggestions.



  • The twists make me wonder if the pulley/winch system is putting turns on the halyard, increasing friction.
  • I would also take a look at the head pulley. Could be a failed bearing or something jammed in it. Been there, done that, similar symptoms.
Anything that causes friction will exponentially worse as the sail hoists, putting more pressure on it. Most cause trouble hoisting more than lowering, because the halyard tension is off lowering. But misalignment or track problems can fight you both ways.



With no sail, it should have been fingertip pulling both ways with no sail.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:12   #30
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Re: Can't get the main to the top.

Hello again everyone.

As expected, there were several problems. The biggest issue was the twist in the halyard. To fix this (on advice from my new neighbor the sailing instructor) I took the main off the halyard, pulled it up as high as I could and untwisted the line. Basically just look down the line like you would a piece of wood to see if it's straight, see which way it's twisted, untwist it and follow that through to the end of the line. Then pull it all back through (with the second rope you've hopefully attached to the other side of the halyard). Rinse and repeat x about 5 and then give it a go.

While pulling the sail up after that, it turned out that even though my first reefing line was loose on the end, it was getting hung up somewhere in the boom so it couldn't pull freely.

With that corrected and the line untwisted I was able to hoist the main without using a winch at all.

Thank you all, once again, for all of your help.
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