Chotu’s Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

[torrmundi]

Figure 8 picture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1leS...ew?usp=sharing

Figure 8 drawing:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAt...ew?usp=sharing

I did share a Google Drive link to the picture in my original post. The link is open to anyone that has it. But no pic is in the post - it disappeared. So does this post. I can see it while editing. But not when posted. So I've put the links in as URLs. See if that works.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by torrmundi

Figure 8 picture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1leS...ew?usp=sharing

Figure 8 drawing:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAt...ew?usp=sharing

I did share a Google Drive link to the picture in my original post. The link is open to anyone that has it. But no pic is in the post - it disappeared. So does this post. I can see it while editing. But not when posted. So I've put the links in as URLs. See if that works.

Thank you for sharing that! It really adds something to the thread I think.

It also clears things up. I thought it was some way to attach the upper and lower to a single slot chain plate pin. I see you have a double slot on your pin.

[torrmundi]

Yes, I imagine they tried to make it ok for a turnbuckle's toggle, but the center laminate is too wide for a turnbuckle toggle to fit around, and either single slot is too narrow for both legs of the toggle. So we both need to use a figure 8 link.

[torrmundi]

Finally figured this picture posting thing out. Here are the drawing and the pic.

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by torrmundi

Finally figured this picture posting thing out. Here are the drawing and the pic.

I'm curious why you couldn't just use an eye jaw toggle, and then attach a threaded eye to the bottom of your turnbuckle, and pin the threaded eye directly to the jaws of the eye-jaw toggle?

Like these...

[torrmundi]

Yacht Rigger,
In my case, the depth of the slot before it narrows in (18mm) was less than the height of the eye (22.5mm). So instead of worrying about the effect of grinding on the chainplate, I used the figure 8. Maybe Chotu has the space for only an eye, I'm not sure.

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by torrmundi

Yacht Rigger,
In my case, the depth of the slot before it narrows in (18mm) was less than the height of the eye (22.5mm). So instead of worrying about the effect of grinding on the chainplate, I used the figure 8. Maybe Chotu has the space for only an eye, I'm not sure.

Aha ok. That makes perfect sense. I was wondering about a depth/clearance issue.

[Chotu]

So there is a boat that is changing sails and we have the same size rig. The jib is perfect. The mainsail is just 3 feet too long along the luff, but fits well otherwise and is a square top.

Should I pick these up? Will the mainsheet be useable if it’s too long?

[Chotu]

Also, what can I do to be ready for the crane when it comes?

Are there tips and tricks to get the forestay right other than doing trig with dicey measurements?

Do people typically hold the spar in the crane and then cut the forestay or do that cut it first and hope/pray it’s right?

What about these dyneema loops?

I have a roll of 7mm Dyneema on hand for the shroud-to-chainplate lashings. If I do loops, I don’t have the right stuff, correct?

Or should I just take 7mm around and around and around in circles like I’m doing lashings, but terminate it into itself with a splice?

Have to get these Dyneema lashings/loops correct.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Also, what can I do to be ready for the crane when it comes?

Are there tips and tricks to get the forestay right other than doing trig with dicey measurements?

Do people typically hold the spar in the crane and then cut the forestay or do that cut it first and hope/pray it’s right?

What about these dyneema loops?

I have a roll of 7mm Dyneema on hand for the shroud-to-chainplate lashings. If I do loops, I don’t have the right stuff, correct?

Or should I just take 7mm around and around and around in circles like I’m doing lashings, but terminate it into itself with a splice?

Have to get these Dyneema lashings/loops correct.

If you know the shrouds are correct, you should be able to put the mast up, tighten them just enough to keep it up and use a halyard as a temporary forestay so you can get the crane out of there. Then confirm forestay sizing and hook it up.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If you know the shrouds are correct, you should be able to put the mast up, tighten them just enough to keep it up and use a halyard as a temporary forestay so you can get the crane out of there. Then confirm forestay sizing and hook it up.

I don’t know anything is correct. That’s kind of the issue.

The shrouds have the dyneema involved. That’s even more complicated than the forestay. The forestay is over length and needs to be cut down and put into a Stalock Terminal and also needs the roller Furler installed around it.

I don’t have accurate measurements for any of this.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I don’t know anything is correct. That’s kind of the issue.



The shrouds have the dyneema involved. That’s even more complicated than the forestay. The forestay is over length and needs to be cut down and put into a Stalock Terminal and also needs the roller Furler installed around it.



I don’t have accurate measurements for any of this.

Draw your rig plan using the physical horizontal and vertical measurements that you’ve got and give the mast the rake that you want. All of that should be exact. Then you should be able to derive measurements for the forestay, cap shrouds and intermediate shrouds that will be within an inch or so. That’s close enough to adjust with turnbuckles.

The forestay is the critical measurement. If you’re not sure about deriving it’s length, then do it empirically. Attach the top end of the overly long forestay to its fitting at the hounds before you lift the mast. You can also attach your shrouds to their respective tangs. Put extension lines on their lowered ends so they don’t flap in the breeze, but from what you’ve written they should be long enough to reach the ends from the deck.

Back on the boat, place the mast vertical and use halyards to put the mast in the exact position that you want. You should have at least two halyards at the hounds going forward, jib and spinnaker, so lead those to each bow respectively. If you have both main halyard and topping lift, lead the main halyard to a centreline hard point and use the topping lift as a plumb line. Otherwise, you’ll need an additional line from the back edge of the top of the mast to use as a plumb line.

Use the halyards to position the top of the mast in the correct position and use the masthead plumb line to get the rake correct. Don’t worry about side to side position - the mast just needs to be close enough by eyeball to vertical (later you’ll use the shroud extensions to accurately centre the mast).

Now pull the forestay wire tight and mark it for cutting. Our boat had a turnbuckle at the base of the forestay, so if you use one that makes the forestay length less critical. If no forestay turnbuckle, then you’ll need to be exact when cutting the wire, allowing for all the fittings. Cut it a little short as it will stretch a little as the fittings bed in.

Once your forestay is cut to length and connected, ease the two bow halyards and take up on the main halyard with as much tension as you can do. Now check the rake - still good? If you need to, adjust the turnbuckle (still under tension) until the rake is right. If no turnbuckle, you’ll need to ease tension and redo your fittings.

Once you’re happy with your forestay length, take all the tension off, support the mast with the bow halyards, disconnect the forestay, and install the furler foil and furler. Then reconnect the forestay and ease the bow halyards. Your forestay should be done and mast have the correct rake.

Now you can do the shrouds. Take the two forward halyards to each shroud base respectively and tension them against the forestay until your mast is centred. Hold a carpenter’s level along the plumb line to check. Once that’s done, install your shroud extensions. A loop with 2 passes of 7mm will be as strong as a single 10mm, or 3 passes as strong as 14mm.

Hope this helps. We went through all this a few years ago when we had our first Dyneema forestay built - the pin to pin measurement had to be exact as we aren’t using a turnbuckle.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Also, what can I do to be ready for the crane when it comes?

Are there tips and tricks to get the forestay right other than doing trig with dicey measurements?

Do people typically hold the spar in the crane and then cut the forestay or do that cut it first and hope/pray it’s right?

…

You’re paying for the crane’s time, so just get the mast onto the boat and hold it roughly in place with halyards.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

So there is a boat that is changing sails and we have the same size rig. The jib is perfect. The mainsail is just 3 feet too long along the luff, but fits well otherwise and is a square top.

Should I pick these up? Will the mainsheet be useable if it’s too long?

Use the mainsail with its first reef and roll up the excess along the boom until you can get a sail maker to cut it down to size.

When cutting the mainsail down the sailmaker will install new tack and clew patches at the correct luff and leech heights. The reefs will now be wonky, so you’ll probably ignore the small first reef and go straight to the original second reef (unless you’re really tender due to not having much interior yet, then a shallow first reef may be nice).

You may need a new third reef if the existing one leaves you with too much mainsail, but that could be a problem for the future if you’re not planning on offshore sailing for a while.

[Chotu]

Fxykty: that was a GUIDE! Thank you soooo much for these posts.

I was going to do the halyard trick which I have done in the past but one of the rigors I was talking to along the way said that was crazy. That’s what got me thinking maybe I’m not supposed to do that.

I had mentioned steadying the mast of the halyards then cutting the forestay. And he was shocked about that. I don’t know why.

Also it’s good to hear that I could just reef that other used sail. I was thinking about it and thinking the same thing. I have other ones that already came on the rig that fit. I know the jib won’t fit properly, but the triangle top main will.

The only thing here is there are no winches. There is no running rigging. So it’s a bit tricky. Hoping I can create the proper tension in the halyards at the cleats.