Chotu's Rigging Thread - Time to Go Fast

[Chotu]

Whoa!!!! Sheaves already shipped!!

https://www.zephyrwerks.com/

Highly recommend (pending receiving the product)

[Pauls]

Hi Chotu,

Regards your broken gooseneck, it broke in the first place because it wasn't strong enough. Welding it up will result in a part no stronger, most likely it will be slightly weaker. The solution to a part which breaks is to make a stronger part.

A cruising boat will put more stress cycles on its rig in a month than most yachts see in a decade. If they are going to last and be trouble free they need to built to a higher strength standard than conventional yachts.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Hi Chotu,

Regards your broken gooseneck, it broke in the first place because it wasn't strong enough. Welding it up will result in a part no stronger, most likely it will be slightly weaker. The solution to a part which breaks is to make a stronger part.

A cruising boat will put more stress cycles on its rig in a month than most yachts see in a decade. If they are going to last and be trouble free they need to built to a higher strength standard than conventional yachts.

OK. Point taken. The Rigger was saying that we might be able to get away with still using it.

Because the pelican hook is all that’s broken? I haven’t looked at this thing in months. I don’t even remember what the shape of it looks like. He has had it since before I left Florida.

[Jim Cate]

Chotu, if you don't want to reeve all the reef lines now, at least reeve messenger lines while the boom is being assembled. You will thank yourself later!

Jim

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Chotu, if you don't want to reeve all the reef lines now, at least reeve messenger lines while the boom is being assembled. You will thank yourself later!

Jim

Good idea! Thank you. I’ll remember to do that

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I have been sailing for 35 years straight.

Just never one of these super high-performance Catamarans.

they are not exactly the same thing as 1980s monohulls.

I understand the mechanics of reefing. What I don’t understand are these options of having two lines or two reef points when I should be having more.

I don’t think your comment is really very productive because you didn’t answer anything

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MANY REEFS YOU NEED FOR OFFSHORE SAILING?

And you think my comments are not productive?

You got a long way to go and don't know it

Good luck.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have the feeling you are absolutely right, but I’m having trouble envisioning how the luff is pulled away from the mast…



I obviously am missing clues because I’m having trouble hoisting our main which I think has the same kind of trouble, but then again, I can reed just fine.



Why do have cats kicked up booms? Because there’s no room for the aft end? Mine is almost horizontal (sail cut up a bit at the leech) but the end of the boom goes up higher for each reef point, to keep it away from the water, which should not be a problem for a cat…

Very few cruising cats have kicked up booms - the vast majority have horizontal booms. As for masts, the vast majority are vertical or near vertical and have some prebend permanently fixed using a combination of spreaders and diamond stays, or carbon shaping if a carbon mast.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The idea is that you pre-select which ones you want rigged before departing. So if you're coastal and expecting really light air, you may want 1 and 2 rigged, as you're very unlikely to want #3. But if going offshore or the forecast is less predictable, you'd want to rig 1 and 3 (or maybe 2 and 3 if lots of high wind is expected).

Just keep them all rigged!!!!! What’s the big deal?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

OK. I think he was mentioning that it’s just a lot of drag having all of those lines everywhere. Makes it more difficult to manage

I guess I will check tomorrow morning. We have a meeting tomorrow morning about several things. I will find out what the story is

Use bare UHMWPE and you won’t have friction.

On an existing main you can retrofit LFRs to standard SS clew rings (which have too sharp a radius and too much friction) like this:

If your main already has these they work also, but are heavy as and generally can’t handle cat loads:

Those pictures are of our original HydraNet mainsail.

For a new mainsail you can either hang LFRs off of the back of the leach at each reef clew, or install LFRs into the sail (we have https://www.rutgerson.se/product/quick-reef-solution/ QRS45s):

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

…
just one question. How do you know so much about sailing when you are a power boater?? Did you spend a lot of time sailing before you got your current boat?

…

With the greatest respect, he doesn’t know performance sailing cruising cats. So treat his advice with a grain of salt and weighed against the advice of those who sail performance sailing cruising cats.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It did.

which I guess only complicates things more.

maybe the sailmaker and Rigger can work together on that.

they are already doing a re-cut of the jib

If you do plan to replace the main with one made specifically for your boat then I would suggest a recut of the existing main to suit a standard/optimal mast rake and prebend for your boat. That would be in the order of 3-5* of prebend (stiffer masts can have less) and less than 1’ of rake. That way you don’t have to mess around with the rig when you get your new main, which should be designed for optimum performance and not for a rig to suit another boat’s mast settings.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

I have to completely disagree with you here. The outhaul on a cat is one of the most important performance features. Adjustment can add 1/2 a knot especially in light winds. Many ignore this and even cover the foot of the sail with a stack pack. It is very simple to lead a single line back to the cockpit and doesn't need any additional purchase within the boom.
…

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. Adjusting the outhaul on our mainsail (which is a membrane string sail, so it doesn’t change shape when foot or luff is tensioned) has no practical effect on our boat speed or pointing angle. Believe me we tested this, and eventually decided that not adjusting had the same effect as adjusting.

Note that our mast doesn’t move or bend - it is has a fixed pre-bend and rake. The boom is horizontal and pivots at the gooseneck. I can imagine that with a cocked-up boom like you’ve got that the outhaul has more effect. But on a horizontal boom like ours, none.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by fxykty

With the greatest respect, he doesn’t know performance sailing cruising cats. So treat his advice with a grain of salt and weighed against the advice of those who sail performance sailing cruising cats.

Come on, he read some stuff about sailing, and he knows some people who have gone sailing... What do you expect from internet experts?

[fxykty]

I’m showing what we’ve got. This is not a prescription for you; just an example of a setup that’s been tried and tested on a cat similar in characteristics to yours.



The three yellow lines are our reef lines.They each have a small eye splice and the working end goes around the boom, through the eye splice, up through the reef clew, down to the aft boom-end sheave, then forward inside the boom to a jammer.

You can see the bales under the boom for the first and second reef lines to hold them in the correct position - slightly aft of the respective reef clew when it’s brought down to the boom. The third reef line is woven through the boom gantry as I didn’t have another bale handy.

Note that we don’t have luff pull down lines - with ball bearing and slider cars the main comes down on its own when luffing, and together with the reef line when reefing off wind. We are thinking of putting a luff pull down line in between the second and third reefs as in high wind the main does need help to come down and grabbing the luff is awkward.

We’ve got a polyester strap holding down the clew and an outhaul pulling the clew aft.

The two white cables are for our mainsheet. It is 4:1, with a working end going to either side of the cockpit.

The blue line leading forward is our broad reaching vang: we use it to provide leech tension when the boom is out beyond the traveller. It has a UHMWPE covered loop going around the boom.

Here’s a closeup of the clew. You can see the outhaul girth hitched to the clew ring, as well as the strap.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Excuse sketch. As can be seen the distance x is shorter than y so if the reef clew is pulled down before the sail / batten is allowed to lay on the boom it will have the effect of trying to pull the luff away from the mast z. Positioning the battens above the reef points allows the sail to flake onto the boom before being pinned. Having a down haul line on the luff allows it to be pulled down onto the boom before snugging down the leech line.
None of this occurs on vertical masts and horizontal booms typically found on monos.Attachment 276030

Okay, I see how that works. But I have raked masts and kicked up booms (I have a rig very similar to a cat) but don’t have problems reefing. When ai slack the halyard and pull on the leech reef line (reef clew) then the luff of the sail comes down enough for me to reach the reef tack. Now I pull my Cunningham line through that, winch it down, then winch down the rest of the reef clew.

This sounds like compatible with your diagram and explanation. The thing is if the luff comes down enough to reach it. I never had trouble, but I am 6’6” and my boom is low…