Club footed Staysail Rigging

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Only 25 years...how many boats.
How many storms.

A few



Sent from my HTC_0PCV2 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[northoceanbeach]

I love my self tacking jib, I have yet to get hit with it, it doesn't seem that likely. Yes, it's not for racers, the sail shape is kind of a piece of ****, but the benefits outright the negatives.

For single handed I couldn't have picked a better setup. It's true, just push the tiller hard over or turn the wheel and that's it, no violently banging around lines, that stupid knot doesn't get wrapped and caught in the shrouds, if it's really windy you can concentrate on other things than flipping jib sheets from one winch to another. And shortening sail is great because you can reef it just like a main. Mine didn't come with reef points but I put them in and it has a really nice flat shape then.

[northoceanbeach]

Explain this jackline to me, because I have it, but don't find I need it. In fact, once I added the reef point I took it off the block and put my forward reef line.

The sailmaker was adamant it was needed to get the sail down. What it is is instead of the last four hanks attaching to my forestay, they attach to a rope that wraps around the forestay and it had a block at the bottom that the line goes through so you can oil, it down to get it started. But then again, I don't think my out haul goes tight enough, so maybe that is the problem right there,

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

But then again, I don't think my out haul goes tight enough, so maybe that is the problem right there,

Spot on, if the outhaul is slack the jackline isn't needed. But then the sail sets like a baggy old sack going to windward unless you tension the outhaul. Then you have to remember to loosen it to get the sail all the way down. The jackline automates this by slackening of the lower hanks as the sail is lowered. Normally they don't need any adjustment, and can be tied of once they are set right.

Without a preventer or topper the things can get dangerous. As soon as you start to run off the sail can slam across gybing as the main blankets it. This happens sometimes around 165-170 degrees, well before flat off square. And a long time before the main gybes.



Sent from my HTC_0PCV2 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Beausoleil]

Originally Posted by coolboat30

Can I have self-tacking without a boom?

Why is having self-tacking so important?

This is not directly to the point but, I used to work on a big schooner and we tacked four jibs when under full sail. (I know: more hands, more time, more room.)

Yes, you can have self-tacking without a boom. Leaving the existing staysail traveler in place, you can re-cut the sail by shortening the foot and replace the single-grommet clew with a clewboard.

We did that on Beausoleil and it works great (for our purposes at least). The previous owner added roller furlers to the head stay and inner stay, and never did anything about the staysail boom. There's a reason a Formosa 51 has a staysail, and she wouldn't sail upwind worth a hoot without it.

After talking to our sailmaker (Mack Sails in Stuart, FL), we sold the old staysail and had a new one made with a 5-point clewboard. We now can point higher than before (as high as 45-50 degrees apparent) and get better drive due to the slot effect between the jib, staysail and main. All without a 10' pole swinging around...

We made up for the loss in sail area in the staysail by going from a 90% jib to 100%, and increasing the roach of the main and mizzen (doable with full battens). She sails like a different boat now.

[svMarite]

Well this has been a great thread to read. We're on a 87' Shannon 43 Ketch with a boomed and fully battened staysail, with a track in front of the mast.

I'm debating on putting a furler vice hanked on.
To start off we love the staysail. As mentioned you can tack up a river with great ease with the jib rolled up and just flying the staysail. To windward, we find the extra sail square footage gives our heavy-ish boat more balance to the helm. When close hauled, the clew is tight and the sheet is short to the track making for a very flat sail. However here we find we have to manually move the blocking cars on the track to put the sail into a more favorable slot. Friends on a Ericson 36 Flushdeck have their cars rigged to move them athwartship from the cockpit.
Agreed to sail shape at other points of sail - we have to move the cars manually but it does work out except for downwind or aft quarter, the twist at the top of the sail does no good.


To me, the benny of this rig is you're getting more sail area (we have a 90% jib and staysail) than a 135 genny or larger on a sloop and you're not fighting weather helm at all - the sails are smaller and more manageable in a blow. As cruisers, we don't have the luxury of having a 0,1,2, or whatever jib. Most have roller furled headsail and they can only reef 15% before losing shape and efficiency. Admittedly on our boat, we commissioned the 90% and wish I had gone 100%.



To answer the original question - my early version Shannon came with a boom and I believe later versions came with a "Scutter" where they free-footed the staysail, made it overlapping the main mast and had the jib cut way down to a yankee - it looks ass-backwards when you see the inner sail larger than the fores'l, but the COE is moved center ship and provides better power - that does make sense - to a point.
As with all of this, as you can see you've heard everyway to the sun to configure - boom, no boom because of a head injury, battened, furling and free footed etc etc.
I think you are in the same proverbial boat as I am - try it, see what works for you and report to us what you find. There will always be another skipper to tell you some sea story and a different opinion...but we all walked away from it.
I'm venturing to installing a RF on the staysail, putting an end-boom sheeve to act as outhaul/roller furler, keeping the boom and track and modify from that point.
All this to say - yes we'd like to have the foredeck too. That boom is annoying but it's fun to sail with just a staysail and mizzen in 30kts and maintain a comfortable ride and more importantly feel safe as it's manageable.


Smooth sailing and fresh warm breezes,
Tony, Master 100t
sv Marite
'87 Shannon 43 Ketch