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lawdawg · 24-10-2010, 21:11

I just put an offer on a Sabre 42, here is the anchor equipment being run off a Maxwell 1200 windlass
Main anchor is a Rocna 33 w/250' chain, 250' rode
Fortress FX 27 w. 30' chain, 250' rode
Spade A140 w/ 30' chain and 250' rode
I am wondering if that windlass is underpowered for the Rocna with that much chain and rode
I would appreciate any thoughts on this as I don't have much experience, but heard that you should triple the weight of the anchor plus chain.
Rocna anchor is 73 pds and the chain is probably about 200lbs/100', so 73 + 500=573*3=1719 for a windlass rated at 1200 pulling lbs
Is this right?
Thanks a lot for any input!

s/y spindrift · 25-10-2010, 00:45

I would think it is well underpowered. The Maxwell site will give you the specs for the ground tackle you have but I guess you would need at least a Maxwell 2200. Rgds

djmarchand · 25-10-2010, 01:44

I think you are ok. First what size chain do you have. 5/16" HT which would be typical for your rig is about 1 lb/ft and 3/8" HT is about 1.5. But don't figure on lifting all of the chain in your locker. The deepest I have ever anchored was in 80 ft of water off of Catalina Island. Most of the time on the east coast you are in 20 ft or less.

But even with 80' of water depth at the angle you will be pulling it is probably equivalent to 160'. And when you pull all of the chain up and you are ready to break out your anchor (which you shouldn't do with your windlass) then it is almost vertical.

Even using the heavier chain 160 is about 240 lbs. Add the weight of your anchor and tripple it and you are well below the 1,200 rated pull.

David

MarkJ · 25-10-2010, 01:53

The windlass won't be underpowered at all unless you park too deep.

I have 330 feet of chain and a (I think) 1,000 watt windlass and when I am in over 23 meters of water the windlass sounds like its working to pull up that chain! So I dont anchor in over 23 meters! (23 meters is 75 feet)

Are you likely to be anchoring that deep?

I would suggest you redo your sums and think the verticle lift weight of 75 feet: 150 pounds for chain; 73 for pick = 223 pounds.

Mark

MarkJ · 25-10-2010, 01:56

David and I must have been writing at the same time

His max is 80 feet so I doubt theres many places you anchor much deeper....

**Jim Cate** · 25-10-2010, 02:46

G'Day Lawdawg,

FWIW, here's some actual data, bereft of theory:

Insatiable II was originally equipped with the same windlass you describe, a VCW1200. Our ground tackle is 280 feet of 10 mm chain and a 60 lb Manson Supreme. We cruise and live primarily at anchor, and have done so in this boat for 7 1/2 years now. That windlass worked without a hiccup for the first 5 years... never any worries about enough power. Whilst in Vanuatu, the cast aluminium bit between the gearbox and the main casting corroded through and failed. We promptly replaced it with the current equivalent, a VCW1500, which has also had completely adequate power. Interestingly, despite the change in "rating", the new windlass has the same motor and the same gearbox, so I wonder where the extra 300 lbs came from??

The point of all this rambling is that I believe that you will have no problems with the lifting power of the fitted windlass.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Gloucester Passage, Qld, Oz

MarkJ · 25-10-2010, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

280 feet of 10 mm chain and a 60 lb Manson Supreme.

Hey Jim

Whats the deepest you've anchored in those 5 years?

Mark
PS Hope you liked my old home town, Cairns

Lived there for 5 years

lawdawg · 25-10-2010, 07:48

I will admit this is a bigger boat than i have ever had, but in the Navy we used to use the 7:1 ratio, so if at 30 feet, 210 feet of chain, which is where my concern came from. Am I completely overdoing things?

Vasco · 25-10-2010, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdawg

I will admit this is a bigger boat than i have ever had, but in the Navy we used to use the 7:1 ratio, so if at 30 feet, 210 feet of chain, which is where my concern came from. Am I completely overdoing things?

Never mind 210 feet of chain. You're only lifting 30 feet plus your freeboard at a time.

MarkJ · 25-10-2010, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdawg

Am I completely overdoing things?

Yep.
We have a clown in this anchorage in 11m at 6:1 and the anchorage is pretty damn crowded and getting more packed as the ARC mob start arriving. Guess what he's doing?

Wiping out every boat that comes within a diameter of 110 meters.

You gotta look out for everyone else too.
However, part of the trick is to make sure you can let out as much as you can if a blow blows............. 7:1 then is great!

nearly as good as 10:1!

Chain anchors need 3:1 and in crowded anchorages thats typical and reasonable. I am at 4:1 here but prefer 5:1.... and as I said, storms 7:1 or more.

But you gotta remember all the other folks in the anchorage are your buddies too, even if you havent met them yet

Also I try to get to every boat near me (if I am staying for a while like here) an find out what everyone elses scope is. Good to know.
Yesterday a boat dragged and another boat came in and tried 3 times to drop but dragged because they didnt let out enough... boat near reckons their chain is straight up and down - has told half the anchorage already

so word spreads fast.

Mark

capt_douglas · 25-10-2010, 08:38

You don't indicate your cruising grounds but I think the big primary (Rockna & 250' chain) are on the edge, especially in deep water.

The general accepted sizing is having the windlass capacity 4x the weight of chain and rode where the anchor and chain are hanging straight down under the boat. However, if you're going to be anchoring in areas where the chances of the entire length of rode and anchor are being pulled to the surface by the windlass, I believe you're asking for problems.

Based on your weights, I'd think as long as you anchored in less than 100' of water, you might be OK.

lawdawg · 25-10-2010, 08:52

I certainly didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't be practicing safe and yet courteous anchoring and respecting those around me, and certainly wouldn't anchor in a way that would leave my boat to swing into others! I didn't realize that a lot of people apparently anchor with a 3:1 or 4:1 aspect. My cruising is going to be mainly Caribbean, but then Pacific or Med depending on how long we have to go for and so making sure that I have the proper equipment for the whole time. I don't see a time when I would be anchoring in 70 feet of water, but then people like MarkJ have certainly been all over and so input from everyone is very helpful. I am just trying to make sure I have the right equipment at the start and don't end up needing to upgrade in the middle of nowhere

Thank you for all the comments

lawdawg · 25-10-2010, 08:54

As a side note, the Rocna seems to get very good reviews, sounds like it should be good for most any conditions. I looked on here and didn't see any comments on them and am hoping it should be a good all around anchor.
As a side note, it isn't the 33 pound model, but model 33, which weighs 73 lbs and rated up to a 66' boat, it's a big son of a gun.

svHyLyte · 25-10-2010, 09:34

The Maxwell you describe has a rated pull of 1500 lbs and the Company suggests a safety margin of 300 percent, hence a working loading of 500 lbs. If one has a 75# anchor (roughly 33Kg), one has a 425 lb residual for chain. Whereas 10 mm/3/8" BBB chain weighs roughly 1.68 lbs per foot (roughly 2.52 KG/M) one can hoist roughly 253 feet of chain (in addition to the anchor or course) or actually a bit more considering bouyancy. Odd's are, however, you will never be anchoring in 250 feet of water and rarely, if ever, in water even as deep as 80' (freeboard at the bow included). We have the same windlass and it is more than adaquate.

One tip. The drive motors, made by Cima of Italy, have a common steel casing and are prone to rusting. One needs keep a close eye on the windlass drive and keep it liberally dosed with T-9 or another anti-corrosion coating. Monthly inspections are reccomended.

FWIW...