Cutter Rig: Staysail Setup

[w32honu]

Hi Gang!!

I am sailing a sloop/cutter rig. I am interested in re-rigging my stay sail stay so that it is removable and stow able.

In the past I have used a bronze lever with turnbuckle that breaks over center....... Problem is that the geometry is such that when the stay is removed aft the original attachment will not work. So I end up jury rigging and lashing the stay while the turnbuckle clutters the side deck.

I am considering a "Dyarchy" (Laurent Giles) type set up ........... The stay would reeve thru a block at the deck attachment. The sail would tack down to the tail end of the stay and the sail would hank to the stay as normal. The halyard will tension both the luff and the stay at the same time. If I use Dynex Dux ........it would be flexible and low stretch. The sail can remain hanked to the stay and the entire unit is movable fore and aft, easy to store and easier to set.

This is my heavy weather option so it is critical that I get good stay and luff tension and the sail sets properly.......

Has any one used this option??

Success???

Curious whether a small halyard winch is enough to get proper tension on both the stay and luff??

Anyone have any other ideas???

Thanks in advance.......

S

[estarzinger]

This has been discussed quite a bit. You might start with: innerstay

But to summarize the option you suggest is the easiest/cheapest but probably the least effective of the possibilities.

The problems with it are #1 not enough stay tension to get a straight luff and be able to sail to windward. You can improve this by making the halyard a 2:1. #2 Its a bit clumsy and a bit unsafe because when you are hanking on and hosting (and dropping) the stay is not tensioned and flopping around on the foredeck. #3 The halyard sheave, clutch and winch are probably not sized to hand the shock load involved when the mast whips (When you are pulling to windward into waves), #4 you need to modify your stay sail to make it work, adding a high modulus rope in the luff.

One better options is to put a strong tackle at the bottom of the dyneema stay. Colligo marine has some hardware specifically for doing this.

Another solution (I think developed by Rod Stevens and used on many swans) is to have a curved fitting on the side of the mast (or on the stay), where you hook the stay and then the lever (or turnbuckle) forward to latch onto a deck fitting. This keeps everything tight and neat when the stay is stowed.

Another solution is a 2:1 halyard with a staysail on a 'code zero' continuous line furler. This is very neat but the most expensive of the options.

[w32honu]

Thanks Evans,

All good points.......

I would prefer to have the sail bagged and already hanked when stored aft on deck. It would be essentially ready to go. So I will have to think a bit more as to an arrangement.

The 2:1 halyard would not be a problem..........

I am a bit confused about the purchase at the bottom of the stay. How would that alleviate sheave loads and shock loads due to mast whip......?? Or are you just suggesting another way to set up the stay and achieve tension? And in this case perhaps the windlass could enter the picture as a way to achieve tension................hmmmmm.

Thanks again. And I will take your advice and search other areas of the forum.

Cheers

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by w32honu

Or are you just suggesting another way to set up the stay and achieve tension? And in this case perhaps the windlass could enter the picture as a way to achieve tension................hmmmmm.

yes, That would have the top end of the stay attached to the mast tang, which is presumably sized to survive the mast whip. And yes, the windless is a possible device to tension up the tackle. The trick with this approach is to figure out a way to 'lock' the tension - the guys at the link I mentioned have a neat dyneema line thimble with a built in tackle and a built in line clamp that holds the tension.

You could just leave the line on the windless, but then you could trip over it. Or you could put a clutch or jammer somewhere on deck. Or use the thimble with clamp.

I have been fiddling with this myself this spring and not yet decided how exactly to do it. My old solution (a nice wichard ratcheting adjuster) broke (twice) so I have been looking for an alternative. I have ended up buying the hardware for a couple different solutions and I will try a couple different things and see which works best.

[w32honu]

The Colligo Marine site has been useful...........

I would be interested in your solutions going forward.

It sounds like you feel it is important to separate the tensioning of the stay from the halyard.....(Dyarchy)?? If there is any stretch at all in the halyard (and there will be) than BOTH the luff tension and the stay tension will be affected.

The stay can still be portable, fore and aft, but should be tensioned independently of the halyard.................???

The attachment is very near the windlass. So I think I might still try to incorporate it into my thinking.


Cheers

[perchance]

This set up sounds a lot like a wire luff staysail. Tack it to a padeye and hoist it on the halyard no hanks required.

[Mark Johnson]

This may not apply, but...

I wanted the removable staysail stay & DUX runners quickly adjustable, so I use a Wichard "quick adjust", folding handle turnbuckle. I keep it rigged up at sea, but not quite tight, and the bagged staysail is hanked on ready to go.

When I raise the sail, I put a few turns on all three turnbuckles. (30 seconds)

In protected waters, I move the wire's turnbuckle a few feet aft, and the middle of the wire about 7' aft. This gives room to tack the headsail.

I usually remove the sail bag at this point, but don't have too.

Yes, there is a risk to using snapshackles. These are, however, MUCH stronger than needed, and I deem them safer than being out there longer, while both hands are occupied, in over 30 knots of wind. It's all a trade off.

Mark