Ditching the Vang?

[sully75]

So what's your method? Just let it jibe?

My other concern is the boom tipping down and hitting the waves on a run. I think there is something in the pardeys about attaching the boom to the second reed point so that it comes up at an angle. ? To keep it from tripping up.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by sully75

So what's your method? Just let it jibe?

My other concern is the boom tipping down and hitting the waves on a run. I think there is something in the pardeys about attaching the boom to the second reed point so that it comes up at an angle. ? To keep it from tripping up.

From my last post:
Most seamanship books say a proper preventer goes from the end of the boom forward to the bow.

When or if the next time I'm sailing a long distance offshore this is how I would now rig a preventer.

[sully75]

I guess that makes sense...if the boom hit the water the boom would be in compression from the sheet and preventer.

Then I guess you have to have mainsheet + vang + preventer?

If the mast had two attachment points, you could pop the vang off the boom and attach it to the end for running and use it as a vang for reaching/beating.

[roverhi]

Using a traditional vang with tackle to the deck can put a lot of bending force on the boom. The key is where is the vang is attached to the boom. If the vang is about in the middle of the boom, you have a decent chance of bending/breaking the boom in an accidental jibe. Have always positioned the vang about 30-40% forward of the aft end. This can put compressive as well as downward forces on the boon but reduces the possible bending load. Have never had a problem in more than 10,000 miles of sailing with this set up on fairly long booms. Have accidentally jibed/tacked without releasing it dozens of times. What i'm sure would prove fatal is dipping the boom in the ocean if the boat is rolling heavily. Would figure out some other arrangement, point of sail if I could foresee such a deep roll.

I don't look at the vang as a preventer but strictly as a vang. If I was looking to add a preventer, definitely would go to the end of the boom with nylon line. Wonder if I could incorporate a Jibe Brake into the vang setup??

[delmarrey]

My vang only serves two purposes. It's spring loaded so it holds the boom up to keep it off the bimini. Or if I'm running before the wind to keep it from rising up since my mainsheet is at the end of the boom.

The nice thing about a loose footed sail is one does not need to run the boom all the out to get good sail shape, running down wind. Which negates the chances of dipping the boom.

My clew is set up on a car that runs forward to give the sail a better shape and keep the clew close to the boom so it doesn't drop. I only allow my boom to go out 45º and let the sail do the rest. Once it hits the spreads I stop there, or reduce sail.


.

[Matt Johnson]

Wouldn't a boom designed for mid-boom sheeting have the strength for the preventer in the middle vs aft end? We have a boom brake, but dont like how the boom still moves slightly in rolling seas...the stress on hardware, chafe, and noise is not fun. I was thinking of going to a permanent preventer on both sides, but on our boat, that would need to be mid-boom.

[delmarrey]

I too have a boom brake attached to the end of the vang but I also use a preventer also attached to the end of the vang. The only way to prevent the backlash would be if it were installed within the boom. Maybe someday they will come up with a boom brake as part of the boom.

I considered permanent preventers on both sides but I calculated it would take 60' of line on each to run it to the cockpit. Not!

[vancouver25]

As a Triton owner I've also wrestled with the dinghy dilemma. I built a nesting Two-Paw (8') so I'll share some pics. You're right, 8' is too big. But I think 7' is also too big, certainly no chance for a dodger and you'll have to move the vangs to the toe rail.

Having built the nester, I also think it's a poor compromise at best. Might work if there are two of you and it's not a "lifeboat" (this is also unrealistic but if it makes you feel better...). In practice, assembling, launching and retrieving the nester by myself has proven quite impractical, if not impossible. With two people it's just largely inconvenient, but it is doable.

The short version is I gave up carrying it aft the mast as I couldn't see, so it travels nested on the fore deck and still leaves enough room to "work" the foredeck (well, it's a 28' boat so that's relative).

Let me know what you figure out as I'm still looking for a better solution.

[sully75]

I've seen your pictures before, thanks for being in touch. It's definitely a problem.

Can you send some more pictures close up of where the dinghy is ending up? It looks like there is a plate on deck built to meet the dodger, no? Looks like if you jammed the bow against the mast and if you had a 7' dinghy, you'd almost clear it? I wonder if the bow could be built in two sections, vertically from the chine, so that it was effectively shorter?

It's basically all I think about these days.

I was thinking today about taking out the hatch entirely and making a sloped area, sort of like a contessa. Not sure how the washboards or doors would work. But then there would be something hard to attach a dodger to.

[sully75]

I agree to that the lifeboat thing may or may not be silly. But I'm not sure that an inflatable liferaft would be all that much better? don't they flip and kind of suck? I may be reading 1970s info. Maybe they are better these days. I don't have a great feeling about them.

[Zach]

WizBang over on the wooden boat magazine forum, cut a motor well into the transom of a cold molded plywood dinghy, to fit around the mast of a smaller boat. Transom extends further forward than the mast. When you want to motor, the bracket is inboard of the transom but the cutout is wide enough to steer.

Might be the solution you are after.

[roverhi]

In big seas a rigid dinghy will leave you paddling in the water hanging on to it for dear life. Not the most pleasant way to spend an afternoon. A liferaft will at least shelter you from the elements and keep you inside. The ride may not equal your Cadillac, however.

A rigid dinghy will allow you to purposely move towards some land or fixed location when the weather moderates. A liferaft is just a lump moving at the wind of current. Not such a great disadvantage in this day and age of epirbs and electronic communication.

Personally like a rigid dinghy for rowing. Don't like to carry gas on board or rely on an outboard to get somewhere. Nothing pisses me off more than some hotdog in an inflatable zipping through the anchorage at 15mph. The Montgomery 8' has a mast and sail for longer excursions or just messing about when I don't feel like rowing. So I carry a 4 man raft in a canister aft of the mast and the rigid dinghy on the foredeck. Usually stow the Avon Redcrest in a bag on deck aft of the mast if it's not half inflated.

Have found it a necessity to have at least two dinghies unless you're single handing. Otherwise, one person ends up playing taxi if they want to do the opposite of what the other crew member(s) want to do.

[sully75]

Originally Posted by Zach

WizBang over on the wooden boat magazine forum, cut a motor well into the transom of a cold molded plywood dinghy, to fit around the mast of a smaller boat. Transom extends further forward than the mast. When you want to motor, the bracket is inboard of the transom but the cutout is wide enough to steer.

Might be the solution you are after.

Sounds great. I'm hunting around for a link, can't find one. Do you know what the thread was?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sully75

I'm trying to fit too many things into one place but!

I have a Pearson Triton. I'm replacing my 7' crappy dinghy with a hopefully better 7' pram. I really want to preserve the ability to keep the dinghy on deck if needed (for offshore passages) and also want to stick with a one piece - it's pretty much my lifeboat and if something is going wrong fast I don't want to horse around putting a nesting dinghy together.

My current dinghy hangs over the hatch a bit, and I can only assume the new one will do the same. It's quite close to the mast and just barely misses the vang. That said I haven't had any problems with the dinghy fouling the vang. But it's got about an inch of clearance.

I also want to get a dodger this year. I'm hoping to make it to Newfoundland and need a place to duck out of the weather. Guess that goes without saying.

So...I'm thinking that I'm going to install a sea hood that's going to be longer than the hatch opening is now, so I can have the dinghy on deck and attach the dodger to the sea hood. The hatch will be somewhat shorter, which will suck a bit but that's a compromise I'll have to make.

Anyway, the other variable is the vang. I'm wondering if I can ditch the permanent vang. I'm probably going to install a beafier mainsheet traveller. If I have that, can I get away with no vang for beating, and then clipping the vang to the rail as needed for reaching, and using it as a preventer for running?

This would give me some more dinghy room, which would give me some more hatch space. Having the vang be generally removable would give me some more latitude into using it as a preventer. But I would pretty much lose the ability to vang to windward.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Paul

I never used my vang to windward on a heavy cruising boat. if you need to pull your mainsail up higher than a sheet from center, my guess is you are overpointing and losing speed on a cruiser. I'm sure there are certain boats and certain sailors who can eek out a little more using the vang, but my guess not most. At any rate I only used it to hold the main down on a reach, and mostly used the vang as a preventer to the toe rail for down wind or broad reaching. Not something you really need on a cruiser.

[sully75]

On a different subject, should I loose foot my main? Seems like I should.