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futureoptions · 21-12-2009, 13:02

Hi all, I need some good info, so here goes:
Ive got a beneteau 423, based in Turkey. We have sailed her quite extensively, so we could consider ourselves reasonably proficient sailors. All this sailing has been done with no additional sails, ie we have main and genoa plus trysail only. The boat has what beneteau cal the 'performance pack, and actually sails really well, and resonably quickly for what she is. We have signed up for a yacht rally (not a race) which covers a large distance over several weeks but ar having definite insecurity symptoms as we are considering most boats wil have spinny/cruising chute etc, and we will be 'left in the wake!' So, the question is, what should we buy in the way of downwind sails? We sail 2-up, so what's the best option for us? I hear a spinny can be extremely demanding and difficult in some circumstances, but a cruising chute is more 'moderate' We are both in our 50's but both fit and active, so what's our best choice?

Eleven · 21-12-2009, 13:10

I'd have the same reservations, even with a cat.
I've keep looking at the para-sail which seems to be right for the cruiser wanting to make distance in mild winds.
Chances are you'll never take it out of the bag until you've sat in a high for half a day.
but in a rally, well, get it up, keep the pace up, you can go swimming/fishing/cooking/drinking in the nearest bar to the finish.

**Pete7** · 21-12-2009, 13:12

If your rally is going to mainly downwind how about a twin headsail rig. You would need another perhaps slightly smaller head sail and a pole. We just missed out on a perfect sail for us because I forgot to add a higher bid on ebay and am now kicking myself. We have a cruising chute for X Channel stuff if it is calm which does add drive over the genoa.

Agree with not choosing a spinnaker, too complicated for short handed husband and wife cruising.

Pete

**Hud3** · 21-12-2009, 13:17

I added an asymmetric spinnaker to the sail inventory on our Island Packet 380, and absolutely loved it. It can easily add a couple of knots to your boatspeed in light to moderate breezes.

I ordered it with a snuffing sock and an ATM Tacker. The sock allows you to hoist the sail, and then deploy it when ready by hauling down on a line that pulls the sock up to the top of the mast. The ATN Tacker is a plastic sleeve device that holds the tack of the sail on the rolled up foresail. It allows you to adjust the height of the tack from the cockpit to trim the sail based on apparent wind angle.

With the autopilot, I found that I was able to hoist, deploy, and later douse and lower the spinnaker single-handed. No help needed. With a crew of two, it would be a piece of cake!

FSMike · 21-12-2009, 13:21

We had a similar outfit to Hud's on a 35' yawl.
Worked like a charm.

Sparohok · 21-12-2009, 13:39

Question for Hud and Mike... with that setup, would you consider an outside jibe, or just snuff and reset the chute on the new jibe? Thanks...

FSMike · 21-12-2009, 13:49

We snuffed the sail then reset. Seemed like less chance of a wrap
or other snafu that way. We were definitely in cruising mode, not racing.

**Hud3** · 21-12-2009, 13:52

I always did the outside jibe. Only got into trouble once!

It takes some practice to get the timing of the line-handling right, and is best done with two onboard. But can be done single-handed, using the autopilot's auto jibe function. The key is to pay out the "formerly loaded sheet" as you haul in on the "newly-to-be-loaded sheet" in a way that allows the clew to fly well forward, but not so much as to allow the "formerly loaded sheet" to fall in the water and get run over by the boat! And you also need to mind the sheet tension to keep from hour-glassing the chute.

Not has hard as it sounds!

senormechanico · 21-12-2009, 13:56

I can't imagine NOT having a cruising chute.
Having a snuffer makes it easy.
Hud described gybing very well.

cabo_sailor · 21-12-2009, 14:27

It was with some trepidation that I bought a cruising chute. I had no spinnaker experience and had heard all sorts of horror stories. It didn't help to see video of boats racing and then broaching under spinnakers. Nevertheless, I got tired of motoring in light airs and made the plunge.

My biggest problem was on the first day when I managed to wrap one of the sheets around the prop. Otherwise its been great. Instead of ghosting along at 2-3 kt I can hoist the chute and get 5-6 kt. With a snuffer hoisting and dousing is easy and with the ATN tacker I can point just a bit higher than otherwise. Of course there still has to be a bit of a breeze and if that breeze is very light and from variable directions, then its too much of a pain and it comes down and engine goes on. All in all I'm glad I got one.

Rich

sailorboy1 · 21-12-2009, 14:32

I vote that you want the spinnaker. This past season was only my second year sailing and my first with my boat. I spent the first half of the year learning how the boat handles etc. I finally got to fly my spinnaker and what a difference it made. Now the wind was stronger every weekend after that so I didn;t fly it again, but I definitely plan on flying it more next year and getting more comnfortable with it. In my mind once I'm comfortable withit it will be a BIG part of my cruising.

svHyLyte · 21-12-2009, 15:11

futureoptions--

We saila Beneteau First 42 which has essentially the same hull and displacement as the 423 and we have found the addition of an assymetric to be a real advantage in light airs.

Our sail was built by Ullman and we also use it with an ATN Sock. Like Hud, we also added a Tacker although we have found that of more use with our standard spinnaker (also in an ATN Sock) in lieu of a pole which can make for rather a lot of lines for a crew of two.

We carry the assum up to about 10-12 knots apparent and usually on a gybe no lower than about 160º as the slight additional distance sailed is more than off-set by increase in VMG. We generally use an inside gybe (with the lazy sheet running between the headstay and the luff of the assym) and have found that to be pretty satisfactory with the spinnaker halyard eased off a foot or two. We did use outside gybes untill we had a sheet get loose and be swept under the yacht and entangled in our prop, which resulted in a real Chinese fire-drill and required a swim in 55º water to correct. Since then, if there's too much wind for an inside gype, we snuff the sail, gybe the main and rehoist on the new gybe. In either case, if you're going to be snuffing the sail on a gybe other than that in which it was set, remember to pass the down-haul lines forward and around the head-stay. Also, for what its worth, I found that clipping a mid-sized snatch block over the down-haul lines and connecting that to the pad-eye Beneteau installed on the foredeck for the foreguy for the standard spinnaker makes it a lot easier to snuff the sail in heavy air as one can pull up on the line's tail rather than down on the line itself which helps keep one firmly planted on the foredeck. Just be careful as one can easily be lulled into difficulty with the yacht barreling along at 8-9 knots and 10-12 knots of apparent wind over the deck. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, don't wanna do it twice!

Good luck.

s/v HyLyte

Bash · 21-12-2009, 15:19

While an outside gybe works better in moderate to strong breezes, I've found an inside gybe to be preferable in light air. Being able to adapt to wind conditions is a good strategy for avoiding hourglasses.

If you're set up for an inside gybe and the wind builds unexpectedly, you can always do a sock gybe. Sock the sail, gybe it manually, and reset the sail on the other side.

Sailmonkey · 21-12-2009, 16:37

Most horror stories about spinnaker sailing come from pushing huge sails as long as you can in enormous winds to gain the extra tenth knot to push out the competition. I've done it and love it.......on someone elses dime. A cruising chute is smaller, heavier, and more tame. Put this in a snuffer and it will change your boat for the better.