Dodger refurb

[wmcunninghamii]

The dodger on my Freedom 30 is old and worn but not dead. I have been shopping for a replacement but I am broke enough to NOT be able to spend $6,000 on a basic replacement. In addition, I am really happy with my current dodger's look on the boat (except for some of my crappy hand sewing mostly done on an "urgent" basis). I have made numerous repairs but it is time to do some major rework. Thankfully the isinglass is good. Has anyone done a rebuild? If so, I would appreciate your insights/tips.

I realize some folks are gonna say buy new. But I don't have the money so it is what it is. I could lose the dodger but life aboard sucks without it. What I do have is a lot of time on my hands and (if I pay attention) halfway decent sewing skills although I do not have a machine. I also have the bucks to buy materials.

I have already purchased new zippers and PTFE thread, I have excess sunbrella in the right color from a dodger extension I never use, so I have some of the materials I need. I have been thinking of simply doing a large sunbrella overlay of the existing weak areas and to cover a porthole on both shoulders. I could never understand why they put those windows in. But they are going to be covered. The net result would be an overlay of the dodger top and running down about 2/3 the way down the shoulders. The forward windows and frames are in good shape but need restitching and new zippers. I can do that no problem. Anyway. appreciate any feedback from fellow dodger restorers.

[Frankly]

Years back, after being jercked around by a local canvas shop, decided to give it a shot on my own. I paper patterned off the existing unit and it all worked out fine. Wouldn't want to hang out my shingle as canvas maker to the wealthy, but I am satisfied.

The secrets I found was basting tape to get the Sunbrella aligned and keep it there, large work area both cutting and sewing, hot knife to speed cutting/ sealing edges. Just have a Sailrite (straight stitch will work fine, the zig zag business is for sail making). I used Tenera which requires a little fiddling. Most any decent home machine will handle 3 or 4 layers of Sunbrella, might have to find something a little heaver for the window material.

So satisfied with the dodger, that came time for a new bimini never even thought about farming it out.


Frankly

[Orion Jim]

I have no comment on your decision to refurbish but the Isinglass will also fail due to age and exposure, and always at the least opportune time….such as offshore in trying conditions. It’s happened to me….clear packing tape was the remedy till I hit port. I ended up with a full replacement after a series of repairs.

[Pete7]

How about taking it apart and using the panels as templates. If you are going to this length then replacing the windows also worth doing.

Next nip into town and find a local seam mistress with a decent commercial machine and ask her nicely what she could do. likely much cheaper as you are providing the materials already. We did this for our cockpit cushions, lovely job at £50 for 3 since she didn't have to supply the materials.

You might chuck it in a large launderette machine so its clean
to handle before you start.

Pete

[JPA Cate]

wcunninghamii,

Been there. Except I had a sewing machine. For dodgers, you can sew on them without a walking foot. I'd suggest a cheap 2nd hand old metal-inside sewing machine. However, if you plan to hand stitch it, DON'T dismantle it; there is a recovery position, but it's a pita. (The dodger fits now). Use a basting stitch, and do the forward "window" first. I have never hand sewn with ptfe thread, and seizing it at the end so it won't pull out will be your biggest challenge. What I would try is back-stitching about an inch, then tying it off with a triple half hitch.

Once the window is secure, me, I'd paint the dodger with left over house paint or something like that--water cleanup, and will waterproof it for a while. If you buy the paint, aim for a similar color. Overlaying it with sunbrella, it will leak, still, along the stitches, because of the degradation in the original cloth. The old sunbrella can be repainted as long as you're willing to do it. It is inelegant. However, it is way cheaper than a new dodger. Usually, those side windows are for looking out the side, while huddled in the dodger's shelter. You could paint over them, if you like, or leave them for the light they allow in.

Another big problem with overlaying the sunbrella is that the dodger is fitted and tensioned. The straight grain of the under and overlayment will not align, and proper tension will not happen. (Acrylic canvas has some stretch along the bias, and dodgers are generally cut to take advantage of it. Fabrics like Stamoid (a pvc fabric with a 10 yr. guarantee) have to be cut so they'll fit without the built in "give" of the Sunbrella, and are less tolerant of minor whoopses.

Ann

[wmcunninghamii]

Thanks everyone for the excellent responses except for Orion Jim. Just joking Orion but I really don't have the money. If i did I would probably go new. I would also like a Tesla, but...

A little clarification. The windows are in excellent condition as is the material supporting the windows. I do need to restitch and install new zippers. I had the windows redone by a professional about four years ago and cover them religiously when the boat is not in use. This seems to have paid off re the windows but the original stitching (other than windows) is way old. as are the zips. Fortunately, doing this job is tedious but not technically challenging.

Re the side windows, yea, I get what they are supposed to be for but the way my dodger is set up I find them useless simply because I have excellent visibility in almost all circumstances and I have done about 10,000 miles with them covered. I just find them to be a needless upkeep item, better off covered in my particular case. I realize they may be useful for other configurations.

With regard to leaking, that is a good point. I had a large piece of vinyl installed on top of the dodger to support a flexible solar array (did the singlehanded transpac twice with it set up like that) but I have now transitioned to hard arrays hanging off the pushpit so I have removed the vinyl and the top looks like a pincushion. Definitely needs help before it just explodes. I had actually been thinking of using an adhesive to literally bond the new material to the old and take the resulting seams out beyond the bows to retain tightness. Doing this might also offer some waterproofing options too. I know you can paint the material but I am not a fan. I have seen it and, well, not a fan.

The dodger is robust enough to be mounted on the bows and stretched so if I could bond panel(s) to the stretched existing material I would think I could get some new strength and maybe some waterproofing to boot. I would still do some stitching but maybe not as extensively as if I just stitched the new piece to the existing.

One final thought. It has crossed my mind to remount the dodger, cover the top and partial shoulders with a nice tight poly sheath, get it all lined up and supported just so... and use some carbon fiber to lay up a new roof. I know it sounds wild but I have worked with CF a bit and a couple of plys would be absolutely bulletproof if properly secured to the bows. It would wind up being a kind of hybrid dodger I guess, but a properly support CF roof would definitely be waterproof and would allow mounting of any array I wanted when I need more juice aboard (we know how that goes). The cloth below would be UV protected and would act to hold the front and sides together as it does today. Anybody want to comment on this crazy idea?

Oh yea, and WRT sewing machines, I have seen various makers tout those cheap Chinese manual sewing machines. I could afford one of those. I wonder just how finicky they are? I installed a cheap Chinese diesel heater two years ago and i am shocked, it cost less than $200 and it is fantastic during the winter months so my experience so far with cheap Chinese has been pretty good. And yes, I installed a CO monitor when the heater went in.

[Americat3014]

I have a Sailrite straight stitch LS-1. The sewing machine repairman in St. Petersburg, FL said the Sailrite machine is sold under many names in China and the only difference he found was that Sailrite appears to require much better tolerances and are not as noisy. The machines are all a copy of a Japanese machine from years ago and the Sailrite replacement parts work on the Chinese machines. If you can confirm that your Chinese machine is one of those, that would be an option for you. If you were in Florida, I would be happy to let you come and use my machine. I expect you may be able to find someone close by in CA that would let you use their machine.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Americat3014

I have a Sailrite straight stitch LS-1. The sewing machine repairman in St. Petersburg, FL said the Sailrite machine is sold under many names in China and the only difference he found was that Sailrite appears to require much better tolerances and are not as noisy. The machines are all a copy of a Japanese machine from years ago and the Sailrite replacement parts work on the Chinese machines. If you can confirm that your Chinese machine is one of those, that would be an option for you. If you were in Florida, I would be happy to let you come and use my machine. I expect you may be able to find someone close by in CA that would let you use their machine.

Having owned both a knock off and the real thing, the only similarity is the frame and inner workings (mostly), sailrite has replaced and tuned all the machinery. The biggest difference is the motor and pedal. I finally got fed up with the knock off after having to re-time every hour of stitching and having to rip countless feet of stitching out. It was well worth the extra money.

OP Good luck on the new dodger I will say don’t use the old one for a pattern as the one you have is stretched and worn and your new one will not fit properly. Use patterning material and basting tape or news paper if you have to, you will get much better results and still have your old one while you work on the new one and also a backup if your new one doesn’t work out.

[JimsCAL]

I had my dodger refurbished by my local sailmaker over 5 years ago. He replaced windows, zippers, restitched, etc. Cost was $300. Dodger still doing well.

[JPA Cate]

wmcunninghamii,

If the sunbrella on the top is really looking holey, yes, you could probably bond the awning sunbrella to it with spray contact adhesive, and leave edges to sew on the exterior. If you do this, try to align the material with the straight grain of the fabric either fore and aft, or side to side, then mark (leaving seam allowance), and cut. It is even possible to turn the edges under and blind-stitch, but it is picky; with small stitches, and every other stitch locked, it will be strong. It will probably not be totally waterproof. [Normally, the needle holes weather-shrink to be tight to the thread, but ptfe thread is so darn slippery, getting really tight stitches hand sewing is going to be difficult as your hands tire, plus, even a glover's needle or a very fine sail needle will leave a larger hole than a sewing machine.]

Completely understand you don't want to do the paint option. The ones I've seen look okay, from 1/8 mi. away. Not so much close up.

Some friends of ours (he's a jolly clever engineer), did buy one of the Chinese machines. They are pleased with their savings, and the machine. If you're handy, one might work for you.

Sorry, I've never worked in carbon fiber, so really can't comment on that suggestion, except to say that Jim and I have done a lot of experiments during our lives afloat. Not all of them worked to our pleasure, but many did. You won't know if you don't give it a go. And if you do, i hope it goes really well. And, do share the experience here.

Ann

[wmcunninghamii]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

wmcunninghamii,

If the sunbrella on the top is really looking holey, yes, you could probably bond the awning sunbrella to it with spray contact adhesive, and leave edges to sew on the exterior. If you do this, try to align the material with the straight grain of the fabric either fore and aft, or side to side, then mark (leaving seam allowance), and cut. It is even possible to turn the edges under and blind-stitch, but it is picky; with small stitches, and every other stitch locked, it will be strong. It will probably not be totally waterproof. [Normally, the needle holes weather-shrink to be tight to the thread, but ptfe thread is so darn slippery, getting really tight stitches hand sewing is going to be difficult as your hands tire, plus, even a glover's needle or a very fine sail needle will leave a larger hole than a sewing machine.]

Completely understand you don't want to do the paint option. The ones I've seen look okay, from 1/8 mi. away. Not so much close up.

Some friends of ours (he's a jolly clever engineer), did buy one of the Chinese machines. They are pleased with their savings, and the machine. If you're handy, one might work for you.

Sorry, I've never worked in carbon fiber, so really can't comment on that suggestion, except to say that Jim and I have done a lot of experiments during our lives afloat. Not all of them worked to our pleasure, but many did. You won't know if you don't give it a go. And if you do, i hope it goes really well. And, do share the experience here.

Ann

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. Re top seams, this is exactly what I had in mind.

More than one respondent has strongly recommended I use a machine so I took a look at used availability and prices. There is a Japan built Brother 755 available near me with table and thread rack which is going for $400. It appears to be in excellent condition. I am tempted. I have used (and badly abused) my Wife's Singer so I do have some familiarity with sewing machines in general. Of course I would do a thorough check out if I was to buy it. But I have always been interested in canvas work on the boat. I need a variety of items including new sail covers and hatch covers, etc. So, given my forced frugality, it might make sense to make this investment. I have always been big on buying diy tools when I believe I can do the work and use my free labor on a project. I always feel good when I can do a halfway decent job and wind up with the tools to do more similar work when the need arises. Teach a person to fish....

Sewing with an awl is definitely getting old and has always been a bit messy. Also, I have any number of home related projects this would enable.

Re th ecarbon, that is really a moonshot idea. I will likely get that darn basic dodger back in service then see if I want to go for something rigid.

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by wmcunninghamii

The forward windows and frames are in good shape but need restitching and new zippers. I can do that no problem. Anyway. appreciate any feedback from fellow dodger restorers.

Can anyone comment on how easy or difficult it is to replace a dodger window (made of stiff, very clear plastic, not sure of the brand, but it's not the soft, wavy roll-up vinyl) using a sewing machine? I would imagine one has to match the right brand of window material, unstitch the old window, pattern it on the new plastic, and sew it in. Would a Sailrite be able to sew through this stiff window plastic?

[Americat3014]

Go to Sailrite.com and search for their video "How to Replace Vinyl Window in a Dodger"
I replaced a window in a large bimini and removed the old window which was a big mistake. The fabric and the new window would not go through the foot of the machine together and I would be off half an inch or more by the time I finished a side. Basting tape helped, but the plastic still moved at a different speed than the fabric. The bimini was 10X7 so it was also a fight to handle the excess fabric through the machine. A dodger may be easier. The Sailrite machine had no trouble sewing through the .040 ga window material, several layers of fabric, and velcro.

Dave

[wmcunninghamii]

Originally Posted by Free2Sail

Can anyone comment on how easy or difficult it is to replace a dodger window (made of stiff, very clear plastic, not sure of the brand, but it's not the soft, wavy roll-up vinyl) using a sewing machine? I would imagine one has to match the right brand of window material, unstitch the old window, pattern it on the new plastic, and sew it in. Would a Sailrite be able to sew through this stiff window plastic?

I can't comment on windows, I am trying to figure it out how to do a dodger repair so no expert. But I can tell you when I mounted a flexible SA panel on the top of my dodger, I affixed it with Velcro. To get the sticky back Velcro to stay on the panel (the adhesive was garbage), I drilled small holes around the panel edge every 1/4 inch. Then I sewed the Velcro on using the holes I drilled. This actually worked out great. Probably the cleanest sewing I've done because all my stitches were perfectly spaced. This will have an impact on water proofness around the windows but backpacker do diy Sean sealing all the time on tents and such, you could probably address seams that way.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Free2Sail

Can anyone comment on how easy or difficult it is to replace a dodger window (made of stiff, very clear plastic, not sure of the brand, but it's not the soft, wavy roll-up vinyl) using a sewing machine? I would imagine one has to match the right brand of window material, unstitch the old window, pattern it on the new plastic, and sew it in. Would a Sailrite be able to sew through this stiff window plastic?

Your can fix (or build new) your dodger and sew in new windows.

If your windows are soft material (sufficient to roll up for example) you can sew that type of material.

I just replaced my windows with new Stratoglass material which is quite stiff but still workable. I use a Sailrite Sailmaker (from 1993). The biggest problem is that the weight of the dodger and the plastic makes it hard for the machine to move it, so it skips stitches and splits the threads. It is much easier to work on a large flat surface where the weight of the project is not hanging the edge of a table or use a walking foot machine.

Listen to this: I sewed through THREE layers of windows material to put in the new windows. The reason is that it is much much easier to tape a new window to an existing window and sew it in place, then cut out the old window. This ensures that the new window will fit properly and it makes the sewing easier since the whole structure hangs together. The reason I had to sew three layers is that this is the second time I've replaced the windows. The original plastic and the last plastic are still there around the edge where the new windows are sewn in. My new windows (three pieces) were marked, cut, taped and sewn in half a day and finished in time for happy hour.

Note 2: I do have a sewing machine, an old but very good Sailrite which I bought new. It lives on the boat and sees frequent use. I have made my own dodgers (three times) since the first one in 1993. It is a darn hard job but I can do it in about four days. It is not perfect but they work. It costs me about $100 for the materials.

A sewing machine is a good investment.

Photos
1, Sewing with the Sailrite
2. First fitting
3. Finished Dodger (2013)
4. Assembling dodger with new windows
5. How it looks with new Stratoglass