Dutchman Main Sail Flaking

[wolfenzee]

I am working towards a new mainsail (probably in a couple of years) and I might as well have the sailmaker take care of what ever sail flaking system I pick while they have the sail I was told that the Dutchman needs to start out with a relatively if not new sail. I have old fashion t-track slides, a 15'boom, 37'luff, battenless and a boom gallows. I am about to undertake alot of passage making so am looking for a good system to store the sails. The boat was designed to have lazyjacks, but they were never installed.

[sailorboy1]

I got better at using my Dutchman by the end of this year so only took 2 years to get it. I had to replace the lines this year and it worked btter afterwqards so maybe te old ones were sticking some.

I found that I need to have the lines pretty tight. But the biggest plus is that I need to maintain a higher boat speed when dropping the sail. I still have problems with the sail flaking well at the aft end.

I still like my last boat's StaPak better. So when I either need a new mainsail or a new cover for it I probably will change over to one of the many stapak type systems.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by defjef

Reefing is no problem, perhaps easier with the Dutchman guiding and collecting the sail on the boom.

Our plastic Dutchman disks are warping with age and UV. WHen running downwind they pop off when we reef because they slide across the spreader. How do you deal with that? We've tried regluing and ended up replacing some with hand sewn rings.

[tartansail]

We had the Dutchman on our previous boat and a stackpack on the current one. We have three full battens and two partials. Our hoist is 45' with a 14' boom. Initially, I preferred the Dutchman for hoisting and thought they were a draw for flaking. Once I figured a simple system for pulling the lazyjacks forward to eliminate having the battens hang up, I now think the systems are comparable for hoisting. After I put a Strong Track system in for the slides last winter, I prefer the Stackpack for flaking. Release the halyard. Do about one minute of cleanup. Zip. Done. The Dutchman dropped fine, but I still needed to get the cover on which was a bit of a PITA with the closures around the Dutchman lines.

Another benefit for the Stackpack for those of us who have off seasons to our sailing is that it makes an easy system for removing or bending on an otherwise bulky sail. I just undo the lines, pull out the slides and slide the sail off the boom. Reverse the procedure for bending on. I've done it solo though it's much easier with another pair of hands.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Livia

Our plastic Dutchman disks are warping with age and UV. WHen running downwind they pop off when we reef because they slide across the spreader. How do you deal with that? We've tried regluing and ended up replacing some with hand sewn rings.

Some on mine have had holes drilled though them and halves pop riveted together (last owner did this). I have some that keep going apart and going either pop rivet them, put a screw though and then gring down the point.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Livia

WHen running downwind they pop off when we reef because they slide across the spreader. How do you deal with that? We've tried regluing and ended up replacing some with hand sewn rings.

I would love to be able to reef while running down wind! Must be a pretty nice sail track... what do you have? Is it a full batten main?


I haven't had any issues with the plastic disc for my main. I have replaced the fishing line twice from UV damage, but the disc are holding on great. I really like the Dutchman system's ease of use and how neat the sail folds.

[LJH]

Originally Posted by Livia

Our plastic Dutchman disks are warping with age and UV. WHen running downwind they pop off when we reef because they slide across the spreader. How do you deal with that? We've tried regluing and ended up replacing some with hand sewn rings.

I have the same problem on my forward line. The PO had a mixture of the plastic disks (upper glides) and metal grommets (lower half of the sail).

When reefing down wind I usually bring the boom in to move the sail away from the spreaders.

Lyndon

[wolfenzee]

After hearing the ridiculously high prices people are paying for the Dutchman system, I not even going to consider it, even if I had a major change in my economic status, I could find better things to do with the money. I am a poor sailor and the sort of guy who gets a good feeling out of saving $1,000s by doing it myself.

[Livia]

funjohnson - we just have plain old plastic sail slides, tiny battens (not full) on a 35' sloop.

Thanks Lyndon. Nice boat! Even pulling the boom in and keeping some tension on our reefing lines we still end up sliding down the spreaders a bit. Perhaps because we aren't full battened? Anyways, thanks for the notes on the rivets and grommets. We plan to eventually swap ours all over to hand sewn rings with sleeves.

[LJH]

Livia, thanks, like your boat as well.

Crossing to the Azores we had an issue one night while I was reefing at night. The forward Dutchman line got stuck in the boot on the upper spreader and the upper bat car broke. I think the top batten was jammed on the spreader for a moment. Since then I have been bringing the boom down with the vang as well as bringing it in and have not had a problem since.

Lyndon

[islandplanet]

We rarely sell Dutchman systems for many of the reasons mentioned above. A lazy bag (aka stack pack, mack pack, etc) is a great way to manage the main.

For a customer buying a new main, we can typically supply a complete lazy bag kit which includes lazy jacks and hardware for less than the cost of modifying the main and installing Dutchman hardware.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by islandplanet

We rarely sell Dutchman systems for many of the reasons mentioned above. A lazy bag (aka stack pack, mack pack, etc) is a great way to manage the main.

For a customer buying a new main, we can typically supply a complete lazy bag kit which includes lazy jacks and hardware for less than the cost of modifying the main and installing Dutchman hardware.

I'm in the Dutchman camp, for many of the reasons mentioned above. While the initial cost of the Dutchman is a bit steep, the hardware will long outlast the sail. I had the sailmaker put in a 3 sets of brass grommets in the new main for the nylon lines, then stitch the old tensionerpockets to the foot. The simple brass grommets work better and are cheaper than the proprietary ones. I also found that weed wacker line is cheaper, better and easier to find.

[islandplanet]

I suspect an enterprising DIY'er could create a similar system using off the shelf components. Good on you for using brass grommets. But it could easily be done if someone was patient and willing to experiment.

On our own boat we have a simple cover and retractable lazy jacks. Rarely needs attention and it's very economical. I'm tempted to go with a lazy cover since my customers rave about them.

[islandplanet]

Originally Posted by Livia

Our plastic Dutchman disks are warping with age and UV. WHen running downwind they pop off when we reef because they slide across the spreader. How do you deal with that? We've tried regluing and ended up replacing some with hand sewn rings.

Why not just use a spur grommet like another poster mentioned. Cheap, effective, and far less time consuming than a hand sewn ring unless you just like doing hand work.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by islandplanet

Why not just use a spur grommet like another poster mentioned. Cheap, effective, and far less time consuming than a hand sewn ring unless you just like doing hand work.

What's a spur grommet?