Electric or hydraulic Furlex - cheap solutions?

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by moseriw

OK more facts:
for a 50 ft boat a furler is from 8 - 10.000 USD hydraulic or electric version
(Worth at max 1500 USD)

If you think that is a lot, you haven't looked at the price a high end Reckmann furler goes for on that size boat... More than 3X what you think is "too much." I had long thought I was beyond sticker shock on big boat gear, but $35,000 for a furler for a 54 foot boat... WOW. A beautiful piece of high end German engineering, but... WOW!

If the electric furler is only worth $1500 to you, you should just stick to a manual one. Or buy a smaller boat.

A furler has to be 100% bulletproof, or it is worth less than nothing.

[moseriw]

If you think that is a lot, you haven't looked at the price a high end Reckmann furler goes for on that size boat... More than 3X what you think is "too much." I had long thought I was beyond sticker shock on big boat gear, but $35,000 for a furler for a 54 foot boat... WOW. A beautiful piece of high end German engineering, but... WOW!

######
and this is fraudulent! OK to be fair I cannot afford this but even if I would earn a million a year I would refuse to pay this.

High end engineering or not... I bet it is made in China with a revenue of 5000%
Not with me Dear

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by moseriw

High end engineering or not... I bet it is made in China with a revenue of 5000%

Are you sure?

https://www.reckmann.com/

From mass production to custom-made solutions in the mega-yacht sector, Reckmann offers you a wide range of highly innovative products and special solutions which are developed and made in Germany.

https://www.superyachtnews.com/busin...-takeover-2014

In their facility north of Hamburg, the company’s 35 employees design, develop, assemble, test, and market their range of products. “But we don’t have expensive CNC machines,” Schuldt says. “We have an inventory, but we have our parts manufactured by our trusted partners who are located close to us, and we assemble here in our workshop.”

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Pitchondesign

OK. The hydraulic motor you suggested appears to made from steel, with a steel shaft. On the foredeck it would not last. The shaft would rust rather quickly, then the shaft seal goes. I think you need either a stainless ot bronze motor. Or, you could develop a housing for that motor protecting it from salt water and air, not an easy task.

Interestingly, that motor will operate at a speed of 10rpm, which is ideal. On the other side, its max speed is 190rpm, way too fast. So, either a gear train or some other way of limiting motor speed.

Additionally, the motor is reversing, so you need a way of reversing the hydraulic flow. Normally this is done with a manual valve. You could use an electric valve, but they cost more.

Then there is placement of the pump, near the motor, or closer to the cockpit. Each has trade offs.

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but developing a reliable system which will last for years requires some engineering.

Have fun.

Most commercial fishing boat hydraulic deck gear is just normal gear, steel etc. It often has oil residue on it. So hard to say up there on the bow. Grease it and make a cover? You know what they say : "If it ain't leaking it ain't hydraulic"

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Yeaah of course I tried but impossible for me. I would even break the reefing line. With the line it is only possible on the foredeck using the main mast winch.

From this statement and one above it, sounds like your furler has a big problem. Furling a sail of that size shouldn't be that hard. Our genoa is only about 2/3 the size of yours, but is never all that hard to wind up with our Milwaukee.

Curing your furler problem will be lots cheaper than powering it up with hydraulics.

Jim

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Yeaah of course I tried but impossible for me. I would even break the reefing line. With the line it is only possible on the foredeck using the main mast winch.

If you can't furl your sail by hand your furling system is broken. It should turn easily by hand.

An electric or hydraulic system is not at all required for a boat that size, it is convenience. Adding more power will just break something. Maybe something important. Like a forestay.

Before you Rube Goldberg a powered system, fix what you have.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Are you sure?

https://www.reckmann.com/

He might very well be sure....

doesn't mean he is right.

[moseriw]

The hint with the broken furler is a way.
I fixed it a few years ago as it was unusable and checked everything but it looks like not enough.

Time for a rigger.

[Jim Cate]

Sudden flash!

I just noticed that the title of the thread mentions Furlex... that had escaped my attention somehow.

I've some experience with old Furlexes, and they have a common failure mode. Their bearings are loose s/s balls running in kinda primitive pressed s/s races. They require regular greasing if they are to survive, and most folks (sadly, myself included) don't do this often or well enough. The result is the balls corroding, often to the extent of becoming more cubic than spherical... sometimes loosing enough material that they simply fall out of the unit and disappear overboard (blush). Other times it is old grease that has dried out and is jamming the races with very high friction resulting

So, there is hope for your unit, with some work. Disassembly is kinda complicated, but it is possible , and new balls are available. Reassembly with good grease will likely make a really big difference for you... there's hope beside hydraulics!

Good luck, and do let us know how it turns out.


Jim

[moseriw]

Good luck, and do let us know how it turns out.

Kinda problem. Got a lot of work with my (nearly finished) "fixer upper"
Corona?

No, I decided to live with it at least until 2021
Liveaboard is planned for 2024 and by then it is got to be fixed.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Good luck, and do let us know how it turns out.

Kinda problem. Got a lot of work with my (nearly finished) "fixer upper"
Corona?

No, I decided to live with it at least until 2021
Liveaboard is planned for 2024 and by then it is got to be fixed.

I should add that if it happens to be the dry grease problem, repeated flushing with a solvent (kero or diesel will work) via the greasing ports, followed by light oil may clear it up significantly. All of the above with frequent oscillations back and forth for the drum. If it seems freer, follow with the recommended grease... or really, any marine grease.

I was able to revive a C model Furlex that had completely frozen up by this method. In the long run, needed ball replacement, but I got a season's use that way, so you might give it a try. Costs little, but makes a mess!

Jim

[jmh2002]

So does the OP have any facts to substantiate the claims made about Reckmann (even claiming their products are fraudulent?), or was it just slander not based in fact (but possibly based in jealousy and/or frustration)?

If Reckmann's products are really made in China, I would be interested to know about this (not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that though).

[moseriw]

Thank you Jim I will try but in fact I have not been precise enough.
It is not a Furlex but a Facnor SD290

When I bought the boat the genua halyard was not mounted correctly on top and we
did break the forestay (good to have a baby stay too)

I fixed this but I think the forestay is to long and is not tighten enough.
( had to replace some tubes - replaced all tube bearings - greased the top and bottom bearings with sort of silicone grease)


On the other hand - when I strenghten it there is to much force on the stern stays and the baby stay is coming loose.

With no wind everything turns without any problems.
Does not matter - it is time for the rigger - 2021

Thank you

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

So does the OP have any facts to substantiate the claims made about Reckmann (even claiming their products are fraudulent?), or was it just slander not based in fact (but possibly based in jealousy and/or frustration)?

If Reckmann's products are really made in China, I would be interested to know about this (not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that though).

affirmative: frustration about companies that sell clearly over priced.

It does not matter much where it is fabricated but I consider the



materials for fabrication < 500 USD,

the per piece price for automated machinery < 200 USD


The difference is simple profit and f... even if the above calculation comes out with 2000 € for the ingreedients one has to pay 25.000 USD++ just for engineering??

[jmh2002]

Ok, so it was just slander, jealousy, and frustration then. Got it...

I doubt you could replicate a Reckmann furler for the prices that you quoted, but if you can, go ahead and do it then, instantly solving your problem.