Furling Line

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I guess if you're never furling by hand, all that really matters is whether or not the line is strong enough, and thick enough for the self tailer to grip?

On our boat I always furl by hand. Sometimes use a winch for reefing though.

My next boat will have electric furlers. Doing this with ropes led to electric winches strikes me as kind of stupid.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's for CONTINUOUS furling lines - a different application.

Ah.. It is and can be used for both type furlers to good advantage. The reference to continuous line furlers arises from the line's ability to be end-to-end spliced without a change in line diameter. But--hey--it's your boat/your call.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Ah.. It is and can be used for both type furlers to good advantage. The reference to continuous line furlers arises from the line's ability to be end-to-end spliced without a change in line diameter. But--hey--it's your boat/your call.

Sure - it sounds great for my mainsail furler, and I didn't know about this before your post. But why would anyone care about end to end splices on a jib furler?

[Markhunter1097]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

An interesting idea. Costing nothing. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

Not my idea @dockhead, I noticed that it was done on my boat by the previous owner when I changed the furling line. It obviously works as the line was over 10 years old, also I just checked the old line and they had removed 5 meters of core and then whipped the cover to the core end to keep it in place.
Not only does it cost nothing, you end up with a nice core to use elsewhere too...

[Capt.Don]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

An interesting idea. Costing nothing. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

I would not remove the core, especially on your Moody 54. I had a furler line break on a 38' boat because the skipper removed the core. Bad idea, especially for offshore sailing.

Don

[alctel]

Why don't you use something like MLX? UV resistant, twice as strong as polyester so you can downsize the line and very little stretch.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sure - it sounds great for my mainsail furler, and I didn't know about this before your post. But why would anyone care about end to end splices on a jib furler?

Oy Vey!?!

Absent an End-to-End splice, how would one come up with a "continuous" furling line? (That's what makes the line "continuous"!!!)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Oy Vey!?!

Absent an End-to-End splice, how would one come up with a "continuous" furling line? (That's what makes the line "continuous"!!!)

My headsail furlers are NOT continuous line furlers. Furlex 400S X 2.

My mainsail furler IS a continuous line furler, and it's about time to change out the furling line, so I might try this rope.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by alctel

Why don't you use something like MLX? UV resistant, twice as strong as polyester so you can downsize the line and very little stretch.

I don't know MLX, but presume it's like our double braid dyneema with polyester cover. That's exactly what I'm planning to use. 10mm racing dyneema - same rope as I use for preventers, barber haulers and pole guys -- is stronger than 12mm poly double braid. Average breaking strength over 5000 kgf.

It's also half the weight and bulk of 12mm poly and a joy to handle.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

I would not remove the core, especially on your Moody 54. I had a furler line break on a 38' boat because the skipper removed the core. Bad idea, especially for offshore sailing.

Don

How much pressure do you put on these? You furl with the sail blanketed, true? I never use a winch at all below 30 knots, so perhaps 40 pounds (400 square foot sail). I use no-core 8mm. The WLL of 12 mm line with no core is probably over 1000 pounds (BS 5000 pounds, core only). If you are breaking the line, I wonder if you are at grave risk of twisting the foil?

Or perhaps the line is question was either chafed (common due to bad alignment) or really old.

Assuming the sails are 2-3 times the area (square of boat length), something isn't adding up. Now, if I tried to furl with wind in the sail, it would be a loud battle.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know MLX, but presume it's like our double braid dyneema with polyester cover. That's exactly what I'm planning to use. 10mm racing dyneema - same rope as I use for preventers, barber haulers and pole guys -- is stronger than 12mm poly double braid. Average breaking strength over 5000 kgf.

It's also half the weight and bulk of 12mm poly and a joy to handle.

That's what I'd be using, on your boat. Maybe even 10 mm double braid, if it's strong enough.

[conachair]

I did similar on a *much* smaller boat partly to get the line sitting on the drum a bit better but also to have something stronger and much more chafe resistant up front so less to worry about offshore.
5mm Marlow d12 max sk99 spliced into some 8mm polyester doublebraid. The Splice was done by pulling the doublebraid cover right back then a sort of modified brummel splice with the dyneema and doublebraid core, about maybe 1m bury each into the other. Then pull the cover back as fast as possible and some siezing at the end of the cover. Works great, d12 max is amazing stuff, very chafe resistant plus they say as well as the chafe coating it's uv resistant as well. Not that it makes much difference in this case, it's so strong (3800kg for 5mm) you could reduce loads of capacity and still something else would go first. It does mean some of the polyester core is exposed which might be a concern for uv.



Did similar on the jib sheets so very little weight hanging off the clew and gets past the inner forestay much better when tacking.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know MLX, but presume it's like our double braid dyneema with polyester cover. That's exactly what I'm planning to use. 10mm racing dyneema - same rope as I use for preventers, barber haulers and pole guys -- is stronger than 12mm poly double braid. Average breaking strength over 5000 kgf.

It's also half the weight and bulk of 12mm poly and a joy to handle.

Our staysail furling line is Dyneema in two sizes spliced seamlessly together. I just sent the old, worn line to West Marine rigging and a brand new line magically appeared one day in the mail. I believe the splices cost less than $40, certainly not worth the trouble to learn how to do it myself. The length of line heading from the brake to the furler is 7mm braid covered Dyneema spliced to 12mm braid covered Dyneema, which is the part we handle.

Just tell the rigging people what you want. I'm surprised that your's didn't come in two sizes. It's easy to furl the staysail by hand in most cases without the need of a winch, no need for electric or hydraulics. For the yankee we have a Rechmann hydraulic furler.

[conachair]

Actually looking at it, the polyester core is inside the dyneema so uv shouldn't be a problem. The D12 hs a uv resistant coating

I believe the splices cost less than $40, certainly not worth the trouble to learn how to do it myself.

Shows how many different kinds of sailors there are, that's like don't learn to cook when you can order a pizza or get someone else to tie your knots. Each to their own.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

That's what I'd be using, on your boat. Maybe even 10 mm double braid, if it's strong enough.

I like the Dyneema - besides being lighter and stronger, it stretches less, which has all kinds of benefits even if you're not sailing (much) with a sail reefed.

I wouldn't want anything weaker than originally specified. I furl with the sheet eased and sail depowered, but the furling line should be strong enough several times over to not break even if I'm furling with a load on. I trust the original specification.