Furling main, battens or not.

[GILow]

Hi all,

Looking for thoughts on whether to order the new main with or without battens.

Boat is a Kelly Peterson 44 with an older Hood Stoway in-mast furling system. (note spelling, that's Stoway not StoAway)

I'm a cruiser who mostly sails solo, so the furling main has some appeal. Plus, I tend not to sail the boat hard. With the Swanson I've generally sailed with one reef in the main on the longer passages.

I'm sailing mostly where there's plenty of wind now but I plan to head for the east coast of Australia soon and may be sailing in lighter winds from time to time.

The boat was known to suffer from weather helm and many KP44 owners have shortened their booms considerably.

So, on paper, I'm not going to miss the extra sail area presented by the battens, but I've read opinions that battens help with pointing ability.

Given they would add cost and increase the chance of a jamming, I'm inclined to go without, but I'd appreciate the advice of fellow cruisers.

Matt

[Bullshooter]

I'm lost. Let's see, it's not April 1; You said in-mast furling: How are you going to furl a
sail with battens into the mast?

Cut me some slack if I am way off base. I am isolating with COVID so it could be brain fog.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I'm lost. Let's see, it's not April 1; You said in-mast furling: How are you going to furl a
sail with battens into the mast?

Cut me some slack if I am way off base. I am isolating with COVID so it could be brain fog.

Skinny vertical battens can work in a furling mainsail.

Jim

[MARC D]

My boat has a Selden mast with UK Halsey mainsail in-mast furling. That sail has vertical battens (3 of differents lenghts) that gives pointing abilities by keeping the shape right.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I'm lost. Let's see, it's not April 1; You said in-mast furling: How are you going to furl a
sail with battens into the mast?

Cut me some slack if I am way off base. I am isolating with COVID so it could be brain fog.

What Jim said, vertical battens. I’m even seeing them in genoas these days.

There is also a batten that can be used horizontally, a bit like a builder’s tape measure, but at least one sail loft won’t use them and they don’t seem to have caught on yet.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I'm lost. Let's see, it's not April 1; You said in-mast furling: How are you going to furl a
sail with battens into the mast? ...

Vertical battens are ok. Here's a link to Quantum Sails, a firm among many that produces mainsails with a variety of different in-mast profiles.

Edited Note: Between my starting my reply and clicking the submit button I see several others have answered the same question. Sorry Jim, I'm sure we didn't mean to jump down youy throat as it may appear.

[Muaddib1116]

The battens probably help pointing, but I wonder how much they help in light air. That seems like a function of other factors. Light air aside, I would say go batten-less. My Selden in-mast system has a batten-less main, and I really doubt that I'll go to battens when the time comes to replace it. It makes furling a lot easier, and less risky, which I think outweighs the benefit of battens. Also, with my boat at least, I think I would be more dependent on my headsails in light air.

[Bullshooter]

Interesting. I never knew about the vertical ones.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

The battens probably help pointing, but I wonder how much they help in light air. That seems like a function of other factors. Light air aside, I would say go batten-less. My Selden in-mast system has a batten-less main, and I really doubt that I'll go to battens when the time comes to replace it. It makes furling a lot easier, and less risky, which I think outweighs the benefit of battens. Also, with my boat at least, I think I would be more dependent on my headsails in light air.

Thank you. A concise analysis.

One vote for no battens.

[Jammer]

Dacron or laminate sail? Laminate sails, because they stretch less, are less prone to jamming even with battens.


You have a choice not only of battens vs. no battens but also the size of the roach and whether your battens will be full or partial. I have not used in-mast furling myself but the experience of others is that partial battens and a modest roach are unlikely to pose problems, especially with a laminate sail.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Dacron or laminate sail? Laminate sails, because they stretch less, are less prone to jamming even with battens.


You have a choice not only of battens vs. no battens but also the size of the roach and whether your battens will be full or partial. I have not used in-mast furling myself but the experience of others is that partial battens and a modest roach are unlikely to pose problems, especially with a laminate sail.

Thank you, I hadn't considered the effect of material choice. I'll feed that into the decision-making process.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Dacron or laminate sail? Laminate sails, because they stretch less, are less prone to jamming even with battens.


You have a choice not only of battens vs. no battens but also the size of the roach and whether your battens will be full or partial. I have not used in-mast furling myself but the experience of others is that partial battens and a modest roach are unlikely to pose problems, especially with a laminate sail.

Second this.


I went from Dacron hollow leech no batten furling main to laminate with short carbon vertical battens and the boat was transformed. Completely different sail shape, sailing performance, and especially upwind ability.


Furls a lot better than the old battenless sail; the battens are not noticeable at all in the furling process, and as was said, laminate furling mainsail works vastly better than Dacron because it's thinner, more flexible, lighter. I would never use a Dacron sail again in a furling mast.


I spent some time on a boat with furling main and full length battens. That didn't furl as well -- you had to be careful with the battens.


Just one data point, but short vertical battens and laminate mainsail is what I've had best results with, by far. Furls better and sails better.

[bensolomon]

I have been on boats with furling mains with and without vertical battens, and got hung up on the battens every time. The boat could only furl on a starboard tack due the battens. So ...when you need to reef, it will be harder with battens.

[Spurs]

I sailed 10 years with a fully battened sail and on a few occasions I had some problems with furling. Then switched to a partially battened sail and in twelve years no problems. Last summer I sailed a few weeks without the battens in place and the sail was very "restless" and noisy. I'd strongly recommend getting partially battened sails.

[wingssail]

Battens are very helpful on a furling mainsail, or should I say that without battens a furling mainsail is not very effective, in my opinion.

Here is an example:
This spring we sailed in four race regatta and in our class were two boats with in-mast furling mainsails: a new Benneteau 46.1 and a new Jeanneau 54. Both had high end laminated sails. The Benneteau had short vertical battens, the Jeanneau had none. Both boats were competitive with us, in our 43' Peterson sloop, at least in rating, but both were slower in actual speed in either longer races or round the cans (we had both). The winds in this regatta were from 12 knots to 24.

But at the start of race 3 the Jeanneau's main blew out. The clew pulled off the body of the sail so it was unuseable. Looking at the standings they decided to race anyhow, without using the main. When we saw that failure we figured they were finished, but no! Using only their 110% jib (and spinnakers downwind) they still sailed the course at almost competitive speeds. They got second place in the regatta.

Point being: That mainsail, without battens, hadn't been doing much for them.

Now I understand that many of you cruisers will dismiss this story since it is about a racing situation, but think about it: The minimal driving power of a battenless main will be evident for any boat which is sailing, racing or cruising.

If you prefer to sail your boat rather than motor, and you have roller furling, go for the most effective mainsail you can, which will be a thin, strong, battened main.