Halyard wrap, maybe?

[daletournier]

Hi, I climbed the mast today to fit a new wind transducer . I was surprised to see the jib Halyard badly damaged, even twisted a bit.

This is a new thing, I did 7500nm last year with no problem.

I've recently added a code zero on a continuous furler . My initial thought was maybe the code zero/spinnaker halyard is rubbing on the jib Halyard when on a port tack but I can't see any damage to the spinnaker halyard.

The only thing I can think of is I'm cranking the spinnaker Halyard to tight which is creating some slack in the forestay stopping the jib furling swivel at the top functioning correctly resulting in some Halyard wrap?

I haven't felt a problem but we've been using the electric winch (yes I know) therefore wouldn't feel it. It can't be fully wrapping as the sail is fully furling.

Any ideas? This concerns me as I have a serious passage coming up in 6 weeks.

Thanks in advance.

[robert sailor]

Hey Dale,
Halyard wraps are usually caused by the halyard being "Too parallel " to the forestay and further exacerbated by lower halyard tension. If your winching it you can really add to the problem because you cant feel the friction. If done to the extreme you will end up with what is known as a "birds nest" at the top of the forestay which is the unravelling of the wire itself. If your getting any of that you will have to replace the forestay or if you are able you can cut the wire back and add a long staylock fitting in place of the original swage. You may need to add a halyard restainer to stop this from happening in the future. Also make sure that the top airblock is close to the mast at the top, you can simply add a wire pennant at the top or bottom to take up the slack.

[daletournier]

Hi Robert, the Halyard is running on a angle through a restrainer. When I first got the boat this wasn't the case, previous owner was using spare Halyard and not through the restrainer thus no angle, I changed it in the first week not wanting a Halyard wrap.

It can only be one of two things (I think) the new jib is shorter in the Luff or I'm creating slack in the fore stay from over tightened the spinnaker of Halyard.

I didn't notice any forestay damage but I didn't look hard. I didn't think of Halyard wrap until tonight. I'll head up again tommorow and have a good look, it's a 11mm forestay and as I said it hasn't fully wrapped so hoping no problem.

I'm going to tighten up the back stays, add some Halyard tension, not tighten the spinnaker Halyard as much, furl by hand and keep an eye on it.

Not sure what else I can do.

[daletournier]

One more thing, forestay damage would be obvious?

[daletournier]

Can they partially wrap and then unwrap? I haven't actually seen it wrap.

[donradcliffe]

Basic question--is the jib halyard wire or rope??

If its rope, you don't have to worry about the forestay, but you do need to worry about it chafing through.

When you were up there (presumably with the jib up and furled) did the angle to the restrainer look wrong? If the jib is a few inches shorter on the luff, the quick fix is to put some lashing on the tack of the jib.

If the code zero is new, think more about how it could be causing the damage.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Basic question--is the jib halyard wire or rope??

If its rope, you don't have to worry about the forestay, but you do need to worry about it chafing through.

When you were up there (presumably with the jib up and furled) did the angle to the restrainer look wrong? If the jib is a few inches shorter on the luff, the quick fix is to put some lashing on the tack of the jib.

If the code zero is new, think more about how it could be causing the damage.

Hi Don, thanks for replying. It's a rope halyard.

Angle looks fine not they I was looking for something wrong while up there. The only thing I noticed was a badly damaged halyard, the Halyard did look like it had been twisted which got me thinking.

I'll climb again in the morning

[donradcliffe]

Take pictures if you can.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Dale,

If you get a pic, then each of us can decide whether or not we'd replace it. But I'm looking at your going aloft as being a fair wee bit of work, and you have already seen the chafe. I think you're going to want to have a good look at the sheave, too, and that, of course, is going to be a hassle. But the ultimate goal is another 28,000 or so trouble free miles.... If the cover's already through, to say nothing of the inner strands, I'd say it's time to replace the halyard, but check the sheave first, sometimes they get sun deteriorated if plastic, and corrosion deteriorated if aluminum. I hope you have a proper fiche. Good luck with it.

Ann

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Can they partially wrap and then unwrap? I haven't actually seen it wrap.

Yes the damage would be obvious and yes they can wrap and unwrap. With your last bit of info I'd say to just increase your halyard tension and your unlikely to have any problems. I like my top air block around 8 to 10 inches from the restrainer when slack which then puts it around 5 to 6 inches when fully tensioned. This is not using spectra or some other really low stretch line. That pretty much assures that you can't wrap the halyard winch or otherwise.

[Jim Cate]

Dale, if you have the restrainer set so the angle is correct between halyard and stay, and you have had enough halyard tension to keep the luff from sagging, then IMO it is quite unlikely that you have had any wrap at all. So, as others have said, look for other sources of chafe. May want to end for end the halyard, too or shorten the nip enough to cut away the chafed area.

Jim

[daletournier]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

It's something I've done as I had zero chafe for the complete Indian ocean crossing, therefore I don't think it's chafe unless as mentioned the new spinnaker halyard is rubbing on a port tack, which I doubt. Also there is no sign of chafe on the other two halyards, it's also well below the masthead sheaves, it's between the restrainer and the swivel, also the Halyard has clearly twisted.

As mentioned, in recent weeks I've added a masthead crane for the code zero and changed Genoa to a jib, has to be related.

I'm thinking jib Luff is abit shorter and I haven't noticed, thus increasing the distance (reducing the angle) of Halyard from restrainer to swivel.

My only other thought as mentioned is I'm taking load of the head stay by cranking on the code zero very tight resulting in headstay sagging abit and effecting the swivel operation? Is that possible? The back stays need a little tensioning.

I agree with Robert, Jim and others to make sure distance from restrainer isn't to great, it definitely hasn't been to great but new sail may have altered that a little.

After going up the mast 8 times in 2 days I'm stuffed, it can weight until this afternoon.

Thanks again this is where Cf shines.

[daletournier]

Climbed back up the mast today. The problem is to much halyard between the swivel and restrainer, hadn't noticed that the distance increased when I added the new jib, Luff must be shorter.

No observable forestay damage.

Currently there is 42cm (approx time 16 inches) which lessens the angle. I'll add a dyneema strop between headsail and swivel, I can only reduce the distance by approx 15cm (6 inches) as that's all the foil I have left.

This then gives me a distance of approx 28cm ( 11 inches) between restrainer and swivel, best I can do and should be fine as I never had a problem when I was using the genoa and it couldn't of been up any further. .

Amazing how I keep getting lessons through "until intentional consequences"... Lol.