How can I rig my asym?

[Nightsky]

Hi all. Novice sailor here. We've owned our cutter rigged motorsailer for a year now. No prior experience sailing. We have no trouble getting sails out and getting them back in. Still working on the nuances of sail trim, although to be honest, we motor all the time and put the sails out for added speed, roll dampening and to take a load off the main engine. Question I have is how to rig our asymmetrical sail. The boat came with it but we have never tried to hoist it although I would like to be able to if/when the situation arises. I have noticed the the foresail (genoa) goes all the way to the masthead. I have two halyards just below where the genoa furler attaches to the mast. I use these halyards to get to the top for repairs/replacements up there and to inspect the rigging. My question is, can I fly a asym if the halyard is just below the genoa furler attachment at the masthead, or must it be above the genoa attachment to work correctly?
thanks in advance

[Rucksta]

Spinnaker halyard block should be above / forward the forestay attachment point.

Masthead rigs often require a crane extending forward to hang the sheaves.

This allows the spinnaker to fly outside the rigging and lifelines

[barnakiel]

Sometimes this is done - esp with very short kites.


As kites are normally a downwind thing and big SA and long luffs are common, as said above, most often one is deployed from a block above and beyond the outmost forestay.


b.

[Jeanneau 45.2]

I have one of these installed by drill and tapping into the top of the mast head. This is what you need, any of the three configurations should work, pick the best fit.
https://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Isomat...pin_cranes.php

look here for an example of how the block attaches to the crane.
https://www.catalina36.org/sites/def...m/masthead.jpg

[akopac]

I got one exactly like that too.

[Nightsky]

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping I wouldn't have to modify or add on to the top of the masthead to fly this asym. Not sure that the mods are worth the trouble. I was hoping to get some ideas on how to fly it as is on our boat. Maybe it's just not meant to be.

[sailingharry]

The other posts have told you what is "right." But I'll be slightly counter culture -- I usually am.



I have an asym, use it almost every time I go out, use it hard, and love it. Couldn't be without a halyard higher than the jib, like it should be. But you don't use it hard, don't use it often, and aren't going to be asking everything of it. I think you would be good with the inside halyard, at least for starters.


A BIG caveat. One reason the halyard has to be high, is during a gybe, the sail "rotates" around the boat, from one side to the other, outside the jib. If you did that with your rig, the halyard would then wrap around the jib. However, if you put the tack point (front bottom) just behind the jib, and then gybed the sail INSIDE the triangle (between the two jibs), I think it may even stay clear.


My point is, go try it. Use it. You won't be doing it in heavy air (don't think that's your mindset). It won't break anything on day 1. If you start seeing you use it often, and start seeing the line not running fair, then consider changes.


Hate to see you store away such a fun sail because everything isn't 100% "right."

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Nightsky

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping I wouldn't have to modify or add on to the top of the masthead to fly this asym. Not sure that the mods are worth the trouble. I was hoping to get some ideas on how to fly it as is on our boat. Maybe it's just not meant to be.

The asym is, without doubt, my favorite sail. The work required to add the block is trivial compared to the fun you'll have.

I've often ghosted along at night, on glassy water with just a few knots of breeze, with the asym gently leading the boat from the nose. Those nights have been some of the best sailing I've ever experienced, and I was only travelling at one or two knots.

Fit the block and reap the rewards.

[FabioC]

It is not the way you "should" do it, but nothing prevents to fly your asym from a point below the forestay. It will not look elegant for sure, but it will work (the jib must be furled, of course).
If needed, play with halyard and tack line to position the sail to leeward, so the sail does not put pressure or chafe on the forestay.
If the asym comes with a sock, do not use the sock because it will likely get stuck at the top of the forestay when you pull it up. Just hoist and take down without the sock (practice in light wind).
The one thing to remember is that, in this configuration, you cannot jibe while the sail is aloft. When you have to jibe, take it down, jibe and re-hoist on the other side (remember to pass the tack line on the new side of the forestay before re-hoisting).

[meirriba]

The forward sails: the larger and more round the sail is, it shoud be mountec further out towards the bow.
So - look at the size of your asymmetric. If it is smaller than your genoa, you can deploy it on the lower block on ghe mast (with the tack behind the genoa tack). Just treat it as a smaller genoa. If it is larger than the genoa, you need to change their installation to put the asym in front. Anyway, you need to check luff length of the asym in any position to see if it fits. Asym luff may be loose but only to a point while genoa luff should be reasonably tight.

[FabioC]

Yes, a good rule of thumb is that the maximum luff length that is feasible for an asym is 107% of the distance from the halyard and the tack. In your case, since you would be flying it inside the forestay, the maximum "reasonable" luff length is probably a bit less than that, say around 102% or so. If the luff length of the asym that you have is longer than that, then no, you cannot fly it, the sail would simply not fly properly. Shorter luff lengths, within reasons, are feasible to fly, although of course they would not be optimal.

[Hoodsail]

i also have a mast head rig, although not cutter, w/ a furling headsail. I have a 2nd halyard (at the mast head) next to the headsail halyard and use that to hoist my gennaker (asym spin). I have the tack attached to an ATN tacker (fits over my furled headsail) secured to my bow with the sheets routed outside all lifelines/standing rigging and led aft to port/starbrd blocks into cockpit. I've only flown it in about 8-10 knots of wind and works well, but still learning how to tack with it...currently before tacking I capture it in the sock (spinnaker sleeve), tack and then re-deploy the gennie...thnks and still learning

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

The other posts have told you what is "right." But I'll be slightly counter culture -- I usually am.



I have an asym, use it almost every time I go out, use it hard, and love it. Couldn't be without a halyard higher than the jib, like it should be. But you don't use it hard, don't use it often, and aren't going to be asking everything of it. I think you would be good with the inside halyard, at least for starters.


A BIG caveat. One reason the halyard has to be high, is during a gybe, the sail "rotates" around the boat, from one side to the other, outside the jib. If you did that with your rig, the halyard would then wrap around the jib. However, if you put the tack point (front bottom) just behind the jib, and then gybed the sail INSIDE the triangle (between the two jibs), I think it may even stay clear.


My point is, go try it. Use it. You won't be doing it in heavy air (don't think that's your mindset). It won't break anything on day 1. If you start seeing you use it often, and start seeing the line not running fair, then consider changes.


Hate to see you store away such a fun sail because everything isn't 100% "right."

Thanks Harry. I understand that there is a "correct" way to do this, but I was hoping that there was an acceptable alternative. I will proceed cautiously and pay special attention to chafe and causing possible damage to the forestay and furling foil. I would most likely make the necessary changes to do this correctly at some future time if I feel the asym becomes a useful sail for this boat.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by FabioC

It is not the way you "should" do it, but nothing prevents to fly your asym from a point below the forestay. It will not look elegant for sure, but it will work (the jib must be furled, of course).
If needed, play with halyard and tack line to position the sail to leeward, so the sail does not put pressure or chafe on the forestay.
If the asym comes with a sock, do not use the sock because it will likely get stuck at the top of the forestay when you pull it up. Just hoist and take down without the sock (practice in light wind).
The one thing to remember is that, in this configuration, you cannot jibe while the sail is aloft. When you have to jibe, take it down, jibe and re-hoist on the other side (remember to pass the tack line on the new side of the forestay before re-hoisting).

This sail does come with a sock. Thanks for the suggestion to not use it and why.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

i also have a mast head rig, although not cutter, w/ a furling headsail. I have a 2nd halyard (at the mast head) next to the headsail halyard and use that to hoist my gennaker (asym spin). I have the tack attached to an ATN tacker (fits over my furled headsail) secured to my bow with the sheets routed outside all lifelines/standing rigging and led aft to port/starbrd blocks into cockpit. I've only flown it in about 8-10 knots of wind and works well, but still learning how to tack with it...currently before tacking I capture it in the sock (spinnaker sleeve), tack and then re-deploy the gennie...thnks and still learning

Thanks. Yet another way to do this. So, no problem with the gennaker halyard crossing over the headsail furling foil? No chafe issues or undue pressure on the foil?