How many winch pawls engage? Wondering if I have the right ones.

[Andrew Vanis]

How many winch pawls engage? Wondering if I have the right ones.

I'm a novice rebuilding a single speed Barlow winch of unknown history. This one was missing one pawl and the washer compared to the same winch on the other side.

I matched the existing pawls to the Barient pawls available from Lewmar that I got are the appropriate ones because only one pawl engages at a time (see pic) and if I got the Harken pawls, which are shorter, both pawls "might" engage at the same time....thus the question, how many should engage? Seems that two engaging would be balanced.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Andrew Vanis

How many winch pawls engage? Wondering if I have the right ones.

I'm a novice rebuilding a single speed Barlow winch of unknown history. This one was missing one pawl and the washer compared to the same winch on the other side.

I matched the existing pawls to the Barient pawls available from Lewmar that I got are the appropriate ones because only one pawl engages at a time (see pic) and if I got the Harken pawls, which are shorter, both pawls "might" engage at the same time....thus the question, how many should engage? Seems that two engaging would be balanced.

Two pawls must engage. If you have a Barlow winch, make query to HUTTON-ARCO Yacht Winches

You will need to specify which Barlow winch you have.

Note, the photo you showed is difficult to evaluate because you are not exactly lined up looking down into the winch, however it looks like the parts shown are not the correct size.

Running a winch without the correct pawls is dangerous. If the pawls do not engage the winch can spin backwards under load. The winch handle, spinning backwards can break your wrist.

Make sure you have pawls that fit and engage properly.

[Don C L]

They both will. But something is odd about that image. What is missing? Or is it not centered? Hard to tell.

[BillKny]

I will confirm that the pawls shown in the picture are WRONG. They do not properly fit in the recess on the shaft. There should be ZERO space around the base of the pawl. ALL pawls must engage in all points of rotation.

Get the right ones for the winch you have. EXACTLY the right ones. As wingsail says a reverse spinning winch can be very dangerous, even on small boats.

I was service manager for a charter company and we had Lewmar, Harkin, and Anderson winches on different boats. We needed to work very hard to be sure we kept the right pawls in the right winch. Getting it wrong was a mess. It takes a lot of experience to see the issues, becasue the are all ABOUT the same, which is different than RIGHT.

[Andrew Vanis]

Thanks for the replies.

It Is the best pic if the pawls I have at this point. I took it at that angle to show that if the right pawl is on the tooth, the left has the shows gap.

I'm figuring shorter pawls may be needed to closer up that gap.

Here is a pic of the parts of the other winch in the order it came apart.

What do you think is missing?

[caffel]

Niceties aside, just try to be sure to replace them in pairs.
Then test the results under load.

[Madehn]

"Two pawls must engage. If you have a Barlow winch, make query to HUTTON-ARCO Yacht Winches"

+1 they are easy to deal with and got me the parts i needed quickly and easily.

[thunderhoof]

When maintaining a winch, always make certain that the old grease is removed and that the various shafts and gears are properly lubricated with a good high pressure grease. Lewmar in particular, and I think others, state that the pawl springs must be free of grease, otherwise it can lead to early spring failure. I make sure there is no grease on the cylindrical part of the pawl or the pocket on the shaft, and just add a dab on the end that contacts the drum.
Don't throw the incorrect pawls away. They are not cheap and may be useful for someone.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Andrew Vanis

Thanks for the replies.

It Is the best pic if the pawls I have at this point. I took it at that angle to show that if the right pawl is on the tooth, the left has the shows gap.

I'm figuring shorter pawls may be needed to closer up that gap.

Here is a pic of the parts of the other winch in the order it came apart.

What do you think is missing?

OK, I'll try one more time:

Your first picture is not directly lined up with the shaft of the winch so it is actually at an angle. We can't see how the pawls are fitting. The second picture is useless, we see all the parts and maybe they are the right number of pieces but there is nothing in that picture to judge the fit. But in any case it does not make sense to me that you think they should be shorter. I'd think longer, but I can't tell from the odd angle of the photo.

As BillKny said, they need to fit perfectly, no gaps around the head of the pawl, and no gaps at the square end, and both pawls must click into place and bear a load at the same time as you rotate the shaft.

If they do not do this perfectly then you don't have the right pawls. Don't take any shortcuts and hope it will be OK, it won't be. So don't keep showing us pictures and hope we say, "OK". We've told you how it must fit, you can see that for yourself. Do the needed and get it right.

[wsmurdoch]

https://www.cheoyleeassociation.com/...t%20Winchs.pdf has some parts diagrams for Barlow winches. My Tanzer has two.

Bill

[OS2Dude]

I've only worked on Llewmar winches, but to me that drum seems drastically oversized. Is everything there? On our winches, the central shaft of the body fills the entire top section of the winch drum and the paws do not extend out fully like the ones in the picture. (You have to squeeze both into their recess to even get the drum on.)

[Andrew Vanis]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

https://www.cheoyleeassociation.com/...t%20Winchs.pdf has some parts diagrams for Barlow winches. My Tanzer has two.

Bill

Thanks for the link. none of the schematics are a fit and the details on Pg1 of the PDF seem to indicate that is all that is avail..It will be interesting to sort this out.

[Andrew Vanis]

Originally Posted by thunderhoof

When maintaining a winch, always make certain that the old grease is removed and that the various shafts and gears are properly lubricated with a good high pressure grease. Lewmar in particular, and I think others, state that the pawl springs must be free of grease, otherwise it can lead to early spring failure. I make sure there is no grease on the cylindrical part of the pawl or the pocket on the shaft, and just add a dab on the end that contacts the drum.
Don't throw the incorrect pawls away. They are not cheap and may be useful for someone.

Thanks, yes, grease only on bearings an other non-pawl contact areas. On Pawls, just oil.

[Andrew Vanis]

Originally Posted by Don C L

They both will. But something is odd about that image. What is missing? Or is it not centered? Hard to tell.

It is not centered. I had to take it off-angle to get both pawls to show.

The important thing to keep in mind looking at the picture that the right pawl is engaged right at a tooth and the resultant gap of the left pawl is shown.

the thing not shown in that picture is the cap (which has its own pawls) since if I put the cap on we couldn't see this insides.

What do you think is missing?

[Andrew Vanis]

Originally Posted by wingssail

it does not make sense to me that you think they should be shorter. I'd think longer, but I can't tell from the odd angle of the photo.

I'm still thinking shorter. I'll try the shorter Harken paws since I can try them out at the West Marine locally and see how that looks. I'll also contact the supplier linked above after the weekend.

Maybe this attached image may straighten out the angle view.

The pawls should attach at opposing teeth. In this pic, the right pawl is in the tooth resulting in the gap on the left pawl. the left pawl is too long to swing into the correct (opposing) tooth. A longer pawl might engage a tooth not opposing, or if too long, extend beyond the radius of the barrel and lock pawl in the tooth.

I appreciate all the responses. They have allowed me to look at this from views I did not have before.