How to lock bottle screw

[Bowdrie]

Engineeringly wise locknuts are pretty 2nd or 3rd rate in a turnbuckle application.
Turnbuckles don't generally want to tighten, they want to loosen.
Locknuts are on the wrong side of the load to prevent that.
To really be effective they have to be tightened almost to the point of the beginning of thread deformation to develop what is essentially just a high friction thread interface.
Tightened to be effective, they increase thread loading over and above what the wires are subjecting the turnbuckle to.
You get some brazing rod, bend it into a "Z" or a flattened "C" to fit the shank holes.
Easy to work, easy to replace, cheap and effective.
Done right there will be no protruding ends to snag anything.

[wrwakefield]

I would never have guessed that using a single wire [silicon bronze welding rod actually] would work for securing turnbuckles. That is until I engaged the late Brion Toss to tune our ketch right after we purchased it in 2014. [Brion also performed a pre-purchase rigging survey for us…]

He describes the technique in his book The Complete Rigger’s Apprentice, and he demonstrates it in the latter half of this brief video. [Sorry, I could only find it on FB…]

I just went on deck to take some photos of ours [appended below] which have not needed re-adjusting since Brion’s expert ministrations in Jun-2014 [nor have any of our 16 or so turnbuckles ever changed position or adjusted themselves…]


FWIW

Cheers, Bill

PS: No, the boat is not on beam ends as this forum’s hosting software might lead you to believe… [It just refuses to publish my photos right side up for some reason, and sharing links from Google Photos or iPhoto don’t work- today anyway- in the image tag…]

[Bowdrie]

^
Your pic shows so aptly what I was trying to describe.

[dfelsent]

Cotter pins. Wrapped in friction tape for padding then white rigging tape. Cotter pins not wide open but just splayed. And cut to length.
Make sure the tape leaves the top and bottom of each opening open so no water is trapped.
No issues with snagging.
The cotter pin not being wide open means you can remove the pin by pulling on the head with pliers after cutting the tape off.
Friction tape is also old school cloth electrical tape.
You can skip the friction tape with little consequence but it helps.

[Mickeyrouse]

No doubt the barrels of the turnbuckles will turn slightly even with seizing wire thru the holes at the ends of the studs. But it won’t be a full turn- something like at most an eighth of a turn. So if you have for example 1/4-28 studs, that means one full turn will move the turnbuckle out- or in- 1/28th of an inch times 2. Thats .o714 inch. But wait- that’s for a complete turn. I doubt that seized with wire or cotter pins it could turn more than an 1/8th- worst case 1/4- of a turn. You’re talking at worst case slackening- or tightening of .0178 of an inch. The rigging likely expands that much over its full length as the sun rises in the morning, or contracts equally at sunset. I tape my turnbuckle studs just to see if they move. Not so much as a thread exposed or the tape wrinkled in years. And I’ve never pinned or wired them. Between corrosion on the threads and the load of the rigging, I’d be surprised if it were any different. But then, I’m easily surprised.

[sailorladd]

Red loctite dripped down from the top or use seizing (or welding) wire and seize the screws to the BODY of the turnbuckle...or both

[SofaKingFishy]

As a pro rigger, use cotter pins, opened at least 15 degrees. Open them all the way up if they’re poking out. All of this bolts/nuts, welding rod chatter is nonsense.

[IanTrail]

I have always used stainless split rings through the holes in the threaded ends; large enough to prevent the thread turning in the turnbuckle more than a few degrees. I've never had a problem and it avoids the potential chafe and snagging from split pins and seizing wire.

[sailingharry]

On all of my boats, the turnbuckles have had a web that crosses in the middle. As a result, a seizing wire passing between the upper and lower pins prevents rotation. Open body, like OP has, doesn't seem normal.

Other than very small boats (Lightning, 19'), I've never seen locknuts on rigging. Lifelines, yes, but not rigging.

Note, turnbuckles DO need a left and right thread for locknuts.

Rings are easy and don't snag. Some people have concerns that they can catch, and be ripped out. I think it's possible, but not likely. But I understand the concern.

My current boat has all three shrouds going to a single turnbuckle. Since they are all within 2-3 inches of each other, a dyneema seizing woven through all three prevents rotation.

[Seaward22]

I put my mast up and down each time out. Found hitch pin clips work well, just fold them down. Made a clip with some stainless steel wire that goes through the bolt hole and locks on the turn buckle. I take a picture and post in my albums next time out.

[Seaward22]

Can’t find the ones I made, next time to the scrap yard, if the scrap yard gods are smiling on me, will make some more.

With the hitch pins thinner is better and you can fold them down and cover with turnbuckle tubes. They lock the pin to the turnbuckle and if the wind is strong enough to sheer them you got bigger problems. Two types of hitch pins pictured I like the more numerous style for ease of removal.

[double u]

after skimming through the thread I have to say:
someone making such heavy weather of such a simple, obvious job as preventing the turnbuckles from coming undone - maybe better stay on inland waters...(& I don't mean the great lakes!) or better in the marina.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by chrisr

firstly, there should always be lock nuts top and bottom.

secondly the tidiest and neatest way to lock of through the ends of the screw thread is using a keyring type clip. get the right size that will go through the hole and then around the body of the turnbuckle. no snaggy ends to catch on !

you can also use cable ties in place of wire etc...just as safe and no snags

cheers,

Turnbuckles almost NEVER have lock nuts on them, in fact they don't even come with them standard. Bottle screw do, turnbuckles don't. Just needs either a cotter pin in the hole and splayed open or the seizing wire used horizontally not vertically. when done tuck the twisted end in the slot.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use RED LOCKTITE as mentioned in one of the posts above. That had to be a joke, unless you want to take a torch to your turnbuckles when you need to adjust them!!!

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Turnbuckles almost NEVER have lock nuts on them, in fact they don't even come with them standard.

what i find most interesting about this is how different regions do things differently

i've been sailing for 60 years...owned something like 15 monos up to 60' & 3 catamarans. mostly in australia, and never ever seen a yacht here that does not have locknuts on the turnbuckles, or met a rigger that would set up a rig without locknuts

i believe it's the norm in Europe as well

the only exception was on some race boats (eg farr 40) we would remove the locknuts and fit a keyring type clip through the hole in the bottom of the thread and around the side of the T/B. this was quicker to remove when making some rig adjustment between races

as they say, different ships, different long splices...

cheers,

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by chrisr

what i find most interesting about this is how different regions do things differently

i've been sailing for 60 years...owned something like 15 monos up to 60' & 3 catamarans. mostly in australia, and never ever seen a yacht here that does not have locknuts on the turnbuckles, or met a rigger that would set up a rig without locknuts

i believe it's the norm in Europe as well

the only exception was on some race boats (eg farr 40) we would remove the locknuts and fit a keyring type clip through the hole in the bottom of the thread and around the side of the T/B. this was quicker to remove when making some rig adjustment between races

as they say, different ships, different long splices...

cheers,

The boat in my avatar had big solid body bottle screws and lock nuts. When I got the boat it was 6-7 years old . They were trouble free. I was going to replace them but after taking one apart to check decided they were good. They were chromed bronze and quite robust.