How to lock bottle screw

[razamataz]

Hi

I recently Tensioned my rig
previously the bottle screws had tiny screws going into the screws of the shroud in order to prevent it from loosening off BUT i noticed it doesnt as the bottle screw body is much biger and doesnt prevent it from slacing off

instead i put siezing wire from screw to screw, twisted it and shoved into the bottle screw body but that also allows some movement

saw once a rubber/plastic plug that acctually goes into the bottle and then screwed in place to the shroud screw (which might explain the original screws i have) - the shape of the plug prevent the bottle from moving - but i dont seem to find them anywhere for sale

also read some ppl use welding wire bent instead of siezing wire

anybody can reccomend a decent solution? source for parts?

can send pics if i wasnt clear

Raz.

[chrisr]

can you post a pic or 2 of the turnbuckles in question ?

this will certainly make it easier for us to comment

cheers,

[razamataz]

Attached - hope this works

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by razamataz

Attached - hope this works

Does that not let the turnbuckle still rotate?

[Benz]

That's not a bottle screw--those have a closed body--that's a turnbuckle. Standard practice is to take the seizing wire, go through the hole in the screw, and around one of the legs of the turnbuckle body. You can also use a cotter pin or welding rod. Lots of folk wrap vinyl tape around any sharp ends of the wire/cotter/whatever to prevent snagging on lines.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Does that not let the turnbuckle still rotate?

Oh dear. He was hoping to keep the wire out of the way, and missed the point. You do, of course, want to tuck the ends into the center.

I would also use two separate wires. That way, if one fails they can still only turn so far before wire torque resists.

I just wired some turnbuckles last week. Separate wires, around the outside of the leg.

[jamhass]

Screws work just fine, but they must project far enough to interfere with the turnbuckle body. One way to achieve this is to put a nut on the screw up against the head. And use thread lock on the screw to keep it from backing out.

[deblen]

And then there is the cadillac of turnbuckle pins....
Mine are 15 seasons old & I made them myself.
https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/th...-locks.240783/

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by razamataz

Attached - hope this works

While the picture post worked fine, the wire is doing practically NOTHING. I hope you did a better job tuning your rig than this might indicate. When I see stuff like this, I start to understand why it is so hard and expensive to get insurance...

The most common way people handle this is simple cotter pins. They work, and are 100% effective. You have to be sure that the ends are not going to snag sails lines or skin, and that can be handled any number of ways. Sailors, being sailors, can argue for days about the best way to do this.

Some people use cotter rings because they are easier to install and remove. Fine if you are a racer who retunes a lot, or a trailer sailor who drops the mast, but for cruising I avoid them.

You can certainly put small (#4?) machine screws in the holes and secure them with nylock nuts. I can not imagine the turnbucle would more more than a fraction of a turn with that. If that bothers you, you are again missing the concept here. This works as well as a cotter pin, and is more elegant looking, IMO, and is essentially snag free.

[TrentePieds]

Benz and thinwater have it right.

I myself like to have a ½" or so of thread showing beyond the ends of the frame of the turnbuckle (or bottle screw if that is what is fitted). The reason for that is that that allows for a bit of future tightening up if that becomes necessary.

I can't quite tell from your pic if the smooth bit beyond the top of the body of the turnbuckle is a swage fitting on the end of the stay/shroud. If so, then, IMO, either your stay/shroud or your turnbuckle is a little too long. You may want to check your rigging tensions.

As for the locking wire, this is what I do:

Snip off about eight inches or so of wire from the spool. From the far side of the turn buckle poke this bit of wire through the hole in the threaded bit leaving a coupla inches sticking out on the near side. Now take the long bit sticking out on the far side around the leg of the turn buckle and from the near side poke it through the hole so the end sticks out on the far side. Tauten up that turn. Now take two more turns in the same manner. As the end of the wire comes towards you on that third turn around the leg of the turn buckle, DON'T poke it through the hole in the shank, but twist the two ends of the wire together, Now "tidy up" with a pair of side cutters, and tuck the twisted ends of the wire into the space between the legs of the turn buckle.

I like a bit of tape around the body of the turn buckle to keep the ends of the locking wire concealed within the turn buckle for the protection of everybody's hands.

These days, when stainless steel is the material of choice, I like to arrange that "serving" of tape so air can get into the ends of the body of the turn buckle, given that SS is so subject to crevice corrosion.

TrentePieds

[deltaten]

I tired of snags and scratches from cotter pins. Seizing wire is a bit fussy to do , especially undo. I ended up using s.s. siding trim nails cut to length. Poke them thru two-sided Velcro ribbon, insert and a couple or three wraps around itself.
Voila!
Neat, clean, adjust with no fuss and cushioned, so to speak

It's been .mebbe 8 yrs now and the outer layer is a bit UV worn and tatty; but is fine. Guess that's on my to-do list for Spring

[chrisr]

firstly, there should always be lock nuts top and bottom.

secondly the tidiest and neatest way to lock of through the ends of the screw thread is using a keyring type clip. get the right size that will go through the hole and then around the body of the turnbuckle. no snaggy ends to catch on !

you can also use cable ties in place of wire etc...just as safe and no snags

cheers,

[razamataz]

Thanks - i knew something wasn't right and that's why i posted - don't kill the messenger
previously it has tiny screws that did nothing as i do believe they were missing a plastic insert (new boat to me, PO didnt know ****, and havent sailed it in 15 yrs)

never heard of lock nuts on turnbuckles , esp one right handed thread and one left

will correct the siezing wire loop ASAP

oh and I do believe I did a better tuning the rig than the local lier of a rigger

[Cheechako]

Cotter pins. KISS
IME the "snagging" issue is way overblown if done well. I never had a 'deck sweeper' genoa on a cruising boat anyway....

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by razamataz

Thanks - i knew something wasn't right and that's why i posted - don't kill the messenger
previously it has tiny screws that did nothing as i do believe they were missing a plastic insert (new boat to me, PO didnt know ****, and havent sailed it in 15 yrs)

never heard of lock nuts on turnbuckles , esp one right handed thread and one left

will correct the siezing wire loop ASAP

oh and I do believe I did a better tuning the rig than the local lier of a rigger

lock nuts on turnbuckles



frankly, every boat i've ever owned or sailed on has had lock nuts on turnbuckles (except on some of the race boats we would remove the locknuts and just use the keyring...it was quicker for adjusting rigging between races)

cheers,

ps The thread doesn't matter to the locknuts