How to tie a Diamond Knot

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Two weeks ago I didn't know what a soft shackle was; now I see them everywhere; I'm hooked - single headsail sheet attachment, attaching the main halliard to the dinghy slings... uses are endless, where a steel shackle would be dangerous. Thanks so much for introducing me to this worthy evening pastime - now I can bake one up in a couple of hours whenever I find a new use for one.

But, tell me, why use a diamond knot when the button knot seems stronger, neater, and just as easy to make?

You are talking to the converted here .

I am a huge fan of Brion's Button knot and use it almost exclusively when making soft shackles, even when extra strength is not required. I find the super smooth top of the Button makes handling significantly easier, as it can be pushed easily through the noose with no snagging, even singlehanded.

The Diamond knot is still handy to know. It needs less rope, so it is useful for using up scraps of dyneema. With no room required for bury of the tails, a smaller soft shackle can also be made when specifically needed. The Diamond also works best when making a soft shackle combined with a low friction ring using the Bullseye weave. Plus, I have just found it useful when making knife łanyards. Last, but not least, some people find the Diamond easier to tie.

I have posted the above instructions for those who want to learn to tie the Diamond knot, not because it is superior to the Button .

SWL

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

You are talking to the converted here .

I am a huge fan of Brion's Button knot and use it almost exclusively when making soft shackles, even when extra strength is not required. I find the super smooth top of the Button makes handling significantly easier, as it can be pushed easily through the noose with no snagging, even singlehanded.

The Diamond knot is still handy to know. It needs less rope, so it is useful for using up scraps of dyneema. With no room required for bury of the tails, a smaller soft shackle can also be made when specifically needed. The Diamond also works best when making a soft shackle combined with a low friction ring using the Bullseye weave. Plus, I have just found it useful when making knife łanyards. Last, but not least, some people find the Diamond easier to tie.

I have posted the above instructions for those who want to learn to tie the Diamond knot, not because it is superior to the Button .

SWL

Yep, the button is superior on single braid dyneema soft shackles but there are several uses for the diamond.

I knocked this knife lanyard up today with two different diamonds on some paracord. The one on the small loop is actually an ABOK# 784 Crown and Diamond which is simpler than the Diamond/Lanyard knot ABOK #787,

The large loop cow-hitches around the wrist.

The advantage of the diamond on the small loop is obvious - you need the ends coming out of the opposite side. But it is also advantageous on the large loop - because the melted ends are on the outside of the loop, they don't have a tendency to abrade your skin when hung around your wrist if they end up as hard knobs with any sharp edges. (same if it is a longer loop for hanging round your neck.)

Incidentally, I tie the Diamond/Lanyard knot in-hand in a similar manner to Conachair's post # 12 i.e. according to Ashley's illustration for ABOK #787.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yep, the button is superior on single braid dyneema soft shackles but there are several uses for the diamond.

I knocked this knife lanyard up today with two different diamonds on some paracord. The one on the small loop is actually an ABOK# 784 Crown and Diamond which is simpler than the Diamond/Lanyard knot ABOK #787,

The large loop cow-hitches around the wrist.

The advantage of the diamond on the small loop is obvious - you need the ends coming out of the opposite side. But it is also advantageous on the large loop - because the melted ends are on the outside of the loop, they don't have a tendency to abrade your skin when hung around your wrist if they end up as hard knobs with any sharp edges. (same if it is a longer loop for hanging round your neck.)

Incidentally, I tie the Diamond/Lanyard knot in-hand in a similar manner to Conachair's post # 12 i.e. according to Ashley's illustration for ABOK #787.

I have found the Diamond knot handy for knife lanyards for the same reason.

By the way, I have been playing with the Diamond and found if the loop is drawn into the knot it produces a beautiful little flat based button. Wonder how this may be put into use?

The Double Diamond is a bit more interesting if you want a more intricate knot. The first image shows how the weave looks just before taking each tail around a leg and up through the centre, as for an ordinary Diamond. For some reason online images just seen to show tangled messes at this stage. The second image shows how the finished knot looks.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Step 4. Create a Diamond knot simply by winding each tail anticlockwise until is passes around the adjacent standing leg (the red cord goes around the blue standing leg and blue around the red one), then bring it up through the centre of the Carrick.

An alternative way to tie the knot is tie it so that instead of pushing the working ends through the knot (as in step 4), one pushes the standing ends (or loop) through the knot (at the opposite end).

In one end of the diamond knot the two legs dive through the knot. In the other end the two legs are part of the sheath structure. The main difference between the two variants of the diamond knot is that when you pull the legs (of one end) to opposite sides, the ends behave in a slightly different way. In the end where the legs dive through the knot, the knot doesn't stretch as much as in the other end.

I wonder if anyone has intentionally used one of these ways in order to make the knot behave better, e.g. in applications where the legs are not always pulled in the same direction.

[Juho]

I just realised that there's also a quick way to switch from one of the variants (see my previous post) to the other. Any Diamond Knot can be made flat as in the picture, and that flat section can be pushed either to the left or to the right to form a more normal looking Diamond Knot that has the "through the knot" legs in the selected end.

[NevisDog]

I appreciate all the different camera shots - lots of skills evident here

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Juho

I just realised that there's also a quick way to switch from one of the variants (see my previous post) to the other. Any Diamond Knot can be made flat as in the picture, and that flat section can be pushed either to the left or to the right to form a more normal looking Diamond Knot that has the "through the knot" legs in the selected end.

Hi Juho
Nice to find another enthusiast .

Hey, that's neat . I think think the two versions are identical though. Flipping the Carrick and pushing the loop through it is the same as the original version.

If you dress the knot carefully, the two flat sides in the photo are identical. Both the "loop legs" and the "loose legs" (ie the standing end and the working ends) pass through the centre. It is just an illusion that one lot is more temporal. I will take some photos when I have made my coffee.

SWL

[weavis]

I tried. I really did.
The girlfriend is very supportive and said to practise the knot on her hair.

She isnt talking to me since..

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by weavis

I tried. I really did.
The girlfriend is very supportive and said to practise the knot on her hair.

She isnt talking to me since..

Weav, that does look like it may hold in dyneema .

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Weav, that does look like it may hold in dyneema .

Dyneema?
Oh crap....

thanks..

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Juho

An alternative way to tie the knot is tie it so that instead of pushing the working ends through the knot (as in step 4), one pushes the standing ends (or loop) through the knot (at the opposite end).

In one end of the diamond knot the two legs dive through the knot. In the other end the two legs are part of the sheath structure. The main difference between the two variants of the diamond knot is that when you pull the legs (of one end) to opposite sides, the ends behave in a slightly different way. In the end where the legs dive through the knot, the knot doesn't stretch as much as in the other end.

I wonder if anyone has intentionally used one of these ways in order to make the knot behave better, e.g. in applications where the legs are not always pulled in the same direction.

I have photographed the Diamond knot after it was very lightly dressed then flattened. I think this is the key - if you look at it when it is first tied it looks like one set of "legs" is temporal, when it actually isn't.

As far as I can see, the two sides have an identical structure. Both the loop and the ends go through the centre of the knot, so they behave the same way and so doesn't matter which ones you pull to opposite sides:

[Juho]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Juho
Nice to find another enthusiast .

Hey, that's neat . I think think the two versions are identical though. Flipping the Carrick and pushing the loop through it is the same as the original version.

If you dress the knot carefully, the two flat sides in the photo are identical. Both the "loop legs" and the "loose legs" (ie the standing end and the working ends) pass through the centre. It is just an illusion that one lot is more temporal. I will take some photos when I have made my coffee.

SWL

Yes, the only difference in the different ways to make the Diamond Knot (in addition to mirroring) is "external" to the knot, i.e. in which end of the knot one wants to have the working ends vs loop / standing part.

Each way of making the knot gives one or the other variant (i.e. "through the knot" ends in one or the other end). If the loop already goes around some large object, it can not be pulled through the knot. The approach of flipping the flat knot in either direction is useful in this kind of situations, since whatever way one ties the knot, the direction of the knot can be changed later. In most use cases the direction of the knot is however not an interesting question.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have photographed the Diamond knot after it was very lightly dressed then flattened. I think this is the key - if you look at it when it is first tied it looks like one set of "legs" is temporal, when it actually isn't.

As far as I can see, the two sides have an identical structure. Both the loop and the ends go through the centre of the knot, so they behave the same way and so doesn't matter which ones you pull to opposite sides:

That doesn't look like ABOK #787 the way I tie it. (see Post #32)

Flattened, the two sides look completely different. The "bight ends" don't go through the centre until you dress the outer turns down over them. Initially, the bight ends are towards the outside of the knot while the running ends pass through the centre.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by StuM

That doesn't look like ABOK #787 the way I tie it. (see Post #32)

Flattened, the two sides look completely different. The "bight ends" don't go through the centre until you dress the outer turns down over them. Initially, the bight ends are towards the outside of the knot while the running ends pass through the centre.

I think there are (at least) two ways to flatten the knot. It should be possible to reshape the knot of post #43 to look like the knot of post #41 (and #35).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Juho

I think there are (at least) two ways to flatten the knot. It should be possible to reshape the knot of post #43 to look like the knot of post #41 (and #35).

You are correct!. I just opened out and flattened the knot in my last photo so that it does look like #41