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Windswept-windy · 14-12-2020, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeValency

Don - responded to the poll, but added a somewhat stronger recommendation towards a gennaker - part of it and thankfully to the very smart advice of one of our great sailors here: barnakiel

Hylas and Contest (as well as HR, Najad, Oyster etc.) are quite similar in design and rigging concept. Do you have running backstays? - also highly recommended and quite easy to add.

For your long distance cruising plan, I would suggest to keep things as safe, versatile and simple as possible and eliminate any regular out of cockpit sail management, replacement etc...

As for the sail material; a year ago, visited OneSails sailmakers in Italy and fell in love with the Dimension Polyant DCX - another candidate for my next cutter sail. Also worth looking at.

Thanks for your insight and will look into (barnakiel)

No, I do not have running backstays but, is fixing to change as I do have the lollypop (T-bolt mast bracket) to add the running back stay.

I asked Selden....why is there no running back stays and why is there no sheave block for the staysail....when there is a Lollypop (T-bolt) for the staysail. He did not know?

I'll look into the DCX! Thanks!

btw: What is your sail material at the moment?

DeValency · 14-12-2020, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windswept-windy

Thanks for your insight and will look into (barnakiel)

No, I do not have running backstays but, is fixing to change as I do have the lollypop (T-bolt mast bracket) to add the running back stay.

I asked Selden....why is there no running back stays and why is there no sheave block for the staysail....when there is a Lollypop (T-bolt) for the staysail. He did not know?

I'll look into the DCX! Thanks!

btw: What is your sail material at the moment?

Pleasure - among my favorite subjects - helps me to balance my racing and cruising lives...

When you order a new mast, you get a long shopping list with a nice price tag for any extra - that's why

. For non cruisers and no cutter rigging, running backstays are less important.

Current sails are:
Main and 155% light genoa: Mylar (Taffeta reinforced)
Heavy cutter sail: Dacron
Heavy 155% genoa (700 sf): Dacron
Asymmetrical: Reinforced Nylon

In the Atlantic crossing and Caribbean, the heavy headsails were mostly adequate with a 15+ breeze while the light Mylar stored under used a reasonable space.

However, as of May (finger crossed), will mainly sail in the Northeast so only the light sails will be on while the heavy Dacron sails will have to be stored at home.

You can see the setup - more or less, in the attached

Kestrahl · 18-12-2020, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Not exactly an unknown in sail making

The Evolutions website says that DCX has the DP finish

so who makes DCX, or do lots of cloth manufacturers make a DCX material?

Pete

Dimension Polyant makes DCX and Hydra-Net, both made in Germany.

Dimension and Polyant used to be two different companies, Germany and US. So some laminates are US made and some are German made. All the wovens are made in Germany.

DeValency · 19-12-2020, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Dimension Polyant makes DCX and Hydra-Net, both made in Germany.

Dimension and Polyant used to be two different companies, Germany and US. So some laminates are US made and some are German made. All the wovens are made in Germany.

Correct!
At the recent quotes received, the cost for a DCX made sails were almost identical to the standard Dacron. While the DCX material costs more, the increased cost of labor (at lest in the US and Europe) makes the overall cost difference quite marginal.
Anyone here had the experience with ordering DCX at Asian sailmakers?

Kestrahl · 20-12-2020, 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeValency

Correct!
At the recent quotes received, the cost for a DCX made sails were almost identical to the standard Dacron. While the DCX material costs more, the increased cost of labor (at lest in the US and Europe) makes the overall cost difference quite marginal.
Anyone here had the experience with ordering DCX at Asian sailmakers?

Are you comparing DCX sails made in Asia vs dacron sails made in the US?
You also have to be wary of the cheap version DCX-I. And radial sails have more design variation. If you are trying to make the cheapest sail, you design the panels according the the width of the material roll. To design it properly to avoid stretch you are using more panels and higher consumption and labor.

DeValency · 20-12-2020, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Are you comparing DCX sails made in Asia vs dacron sails made in the US?
You also have to be wary of the cheap version DCX-I. And radial sails have more design variation. If you are trying to make the cheapest sail, you design the panels according the the width of the material roll. To design it properly to avoid stretch you are using more panels and higher consumption and labor.

Have I compared Asian made "DCX"?

- I don't know of any real one.

To be accurate, as the labor cost is high as in the US and Europe, the material relative cost is lower in the final product - so, DCX make more sense.

Referred to a German made DCX used by a quality Italian sailmaker.

Still guess there are (very few) Asian sailmakers that can make a quality sail with the original DCX. Didn't make any study on that yet.

Kestrahl · 24-12-2020, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeValency

Have I compared Asian made "DCX"?

- I don't know of any real one.

To be accurate, as the labor cost is high as in the US and Europe, the material relative cost is lower in the final product - so, DCX make more sense.

Referred to a German made DCX used by a quality Italian sailmaker.

Still guess there are (very few) Asian sailmakers that can make a quality sail with the original DCX. Didn't make any study on that yet.

DCX and DCXi are both made by Dimension Polyant. DCXi is a cheaper version.
They were making some similar cloth in China, but i'm not sure if they are still going as it was the same price as cloth from the US or Europe, but without any brand recognition.
There is more potential for corner cutting on the design with radial cut. Not everybody but do see some shocking stuff here in Asia.

Farang · 25-12-2020, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustMurph

That sounds so so good! As a tinkerer and a bit of a perfectionist, I wish I could get that out of my sails, but their baggy shape just leave me feeling a bit dead! I'm definitely looking forward to doing something about it in the future!

.
I have near new 2018 <10k miles UK Saxby made hydranet main and Genoa for a Mumby for sale. PM sent.