In-mast vs in-boom furling

[Bluechart]

I’ve replaced both jib and main furling lines with high tech lines. There are high loads on them when sailing and reefed, in high winds (on SF Bay we have 15-20k on a daily basis in the summer, some areas of the bay give us more, not uncommon to have 25-30k gusts) I don’t want to worry about those lines failing!

[captprogreso]

I WILL NEVER EVER BUYING A SAILBOAT WITHOUT A IN MAST FURLING, AFTER I HAVE MY LAS BOAT WITH IT.
I fell very safe with it, i can readly roll in and out and set up a pace i like, there is no better system that this one.
Actually on the long run you will be much faster because you will let go the main faster this way, and you will not loose any oportunity to cach more wind.

[Happ]

I have sailed all 3 types of mains. I short hand sail and a month ago double handed a 60' catamaran 450 mi offshore. It had a stack pack. My next boat will have a full batten main with a stack pack. Easy to put up and take down. Single line slab reefing set up correctly makes it easy to reef. You also get the best ability to adjust the shape of the sail.

My second choice would be an in boom furling system. If it gets stuck you can still get the sail down. You can reef it at any full batten. Sail shop is reasonably good. The biggest negative is the cost. It can easily cost $5,000 or more plus sail and new running gear.

I would not buy an in mast furling system. Besides the obvious that if they get stuck they are very difficult to fix. Remember the old saying about running aground? Most don't have battens and the sail needs to be designed much flatter so getting light air performance is difficult. The sails are also built smaller do to the way they furl. I've read 10-15%. Yes, lots of production boats like the Beneteau's, Catalina's, Jeaneau's and others sell in mast furling systems. Many of their customers have limited experience or are daysailors for the most part. I'm not slamming any one who has one or knocking what they use their boat for. Read these manufacturers sales literature. You will quickly see they are targeting a certain market that perceived ease of use over performance is a clear winner.

[hjkane]

Originally Posted by Medved

Hi all, I am a power boater who is converting to sailing. Passed ASA 101 few weeks ago and scheduled 103/104 for mid Sep. I am still in my research phase as to which boat to go after. I will be sailing single handed or short handed, and really liked in-mast furling on a Jeanneau 440 I got a chance to sail. That said, I am trying to understand pros and cons between in-mast and in-boom. I saw in and around Annapolis a number of ocean going sailboats with in-boom furling, but cannot find much info on those. Any insight from folks who have sailed with these are greatly appreciated.

When the wind pipes up, a very serious problem is to NOT be able to lower/reduce sail, and an in-mast furler, if hung up tight, puts you there. The in-boom systems are a bit less prone to jam solidly, but even if they do, you can still lower sail fairly easily, albeit the in-boom systems are a bit more expensive.

I'm rear commodore for a sailing club and we have 19 sailboats up thru 40 feet and none have these systems due to having so many different sailors using the boats, and thus the increased potential for problems. We use lazy jacks, and while not as convenient, they work well. Another sailor replied suggesting the Doyle stack pack and this is a bit more convenient than lazy jacks as the containment and cover are all in one, and it's another good choice for offshore sailing.

A friend just purchased a Jeanneau 45.6 and it has in-mast furling and he loves it. For coastal cruising and island hopping, the in-mast is a nice convenient setup, but when things go to hell on open ocean, is not the time to regret your choice of convenience over simplicity.

If you have in-mast, the important things to minimize jamming are: having the in-mast halyard tensioned correctly (too loose can (WILL) jam up, too tight will be hard to furl), having your boom level when furling, and keeping your sails in good condition. A baggy main is not a problem beyond poor performance on a conventional system, but a baggy mainsail will very likely jam up an in-mast unit. In short, these systems have evolved to being very reliable, and are convenient, and easy to use for most sailing, but, and it's just MHO, if you're planning on sailing offshore, short-handed, you want to absolutely minimize potential problems, and have a fix if they arise, and having a thoroughly jammed in-mast system in heavy seas and high winds, while admittedly unlikely, can ruin your day.

[camaraderie]

I view the in mast furling systems as a nice addition to a bay or lake sailing boat where if something goes wrong...you can still get home without too much fuss. I would not consider one for ocean passagemaking.
We had an in boom system from Schaeffer designed with a Quantum sail full battened to provide top performance. We were most pleased with both the performance and ease of use and infinite furlability single handing on watch. From a safety standpoint we wanted to be able to furl on any point of wind and drop all sail quickly if the furler ever jammed. The Shaeffer met all those requirements. At the time, the Leisure Sail In Boom was the only other system that would do the same but it was more expensive so we went with Schaeffer and never had any issues. On any of these systems...the perfect angle between boom and mast must be kept for proper roll up. Schaeffer insures this with an adjustable boom vang strut which can be locked in to that perfect angle. We never had a jam.
The big problem with in boom furlers is expense & thus they aren't for everyone. I would have gone with a Stack Pack if I'd had to make a less expensive choice...not a cheaper furling system.
Hope this is helpful to the OP.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bluechart

I’ve replaced both jib and main furling lines with high tech lines. There are high loads on them when sailing and reefed, in high winds (on SF Bay we have 15-20k on a daily basis in the summer, some areas of the bay give us more, not uncommon to have 25-30k gusts) I don’t want to worry about those lines failing!

Indeed. My headsail furling lines are double braid racing dyneema, although I'm not sure furling line breakage is a big risk as long as you are careful about chafe. I changed to that more for the chance to downsize to a lighter and more flexible material, and it was a really good move, greatly improving handling of the furling lines.


My main furling line is an endless loop, so will always have that splice as the weak point. But this line is not stressed much. Can't use high tech rope because you want it to be soft and large diameter to grip the furling drum. I have broken this line a couple of times in 10 years, always at the splice, and probably not from any big load but just the splice coming loose.



I was awfully glad to be able to go to the mast with a winch handle and deal with the situation like that.



The Selden system has another advantage in that the furling drum is external and easily accessible, so it's no big deal to put the furling line back on after replacing it or re-splicing it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Happ

. . . Yes, lots of production boats like the Beneteau's, Catalina's, Jeaneau's and others sell in mast furling systems. Many of their customers have limited experience or are daysailors for the most part. I'm not slamming any one who has one or knocking what they use their boat for. Read these manufacturers sales literature. You will quickly see they are targeting a certain market that perceived ease of use over performance is a clear winner.

This is a common misconception.



A bigger percentage of high end European cruising boats have in-mast furling, than production boats. You cannot buy an Amel -- a purpose-built ocean crosser -- without in-mast furling, and it is almost impossible to buy an Oyster or Hallberg-Rassy without in-mast furling. Do you think these boats -- Amels, Oysters, HR's -- are aimed at "customers with limited experience or day-sailors"?! Really?


In fact, coastal and "day sailing" boats in mild latitudes don't get much benefit from in-mast furling; the further North you go, the higher percentage of boats that have in-mast furling.


This is Oyster 485, Mina2:




Attachment 194893


https://mina2.com/



One of the few yachts ever to have cruised both Antarctica, and the Arctic, and the first British yacht in 6 years to make it to Antarctica. Yep, in mast furling, like virtually all Oysters.


In-mast furling, like every system, has its own disadvantages, and I wouldn't choose it for every application, but it really shines in tough ocean sailing, especially when you might get into conditions where it would be hellish to try to head up to reef. Don't believe the stuff about it dreamed up in armchairs.

[GlobalPlayer]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Having owned and used all three systems..

1. In mast furling with vertical battens is the easiest, quickest and most trouble free. Especially if hydraulic or electric.
2. In boom is nice and much better than standard stack pack, but you will need to raise the main each time it’s used, so make sure you have an electric winch.
3. Standard stack pack. Really Sucks, unless you’re a racer, masochist, purist or just plain ignorant of the two more superior methods and how to use them.

Hahahahaha... yes, yes, and hell yes!!!

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I was impressed, and because of the battens and "proper" reefing, and that you can still lower the main in a blow if the furling goes hayware, in-boom furling would be my choice (if I ever, ever have the choice to make )

Yep. Southern boat has the Leisurefurl system and I like it for exactly those reasons. Even if everything goes flooey, you can just release the halyard and the sail comes down.

Connemara

[Jimmyhenry]

My own experience has not been as nice as many above. I’ve done over 40k nm between Panama and Hobart.
In mast. In bad weather going to Fiji. 60+ knots of wind. Mainsail got damaged. Trying to furl, it got stuck in the slot. I ended up the mast for several hours getting it out. Had to wait for the wind to die down so we could get it off the mast boom. Dangerous, and and injuries while up the mast.

In boom. Done several voyages on catamarans with in boom. A nightmare every time getting the boom set up so the sail stacks in line with the boom. If the boom angle is even slightly off the exact angle the sail sits on the boom incorrectly and getting the sail up , and or just getting it on the roller is hell.

Stack it. So simple. So easy.

Bear in mind these production boats are really just caravans to park up at a marina. Not designed for real sailing.

Pete

[Giro]

I have been convinced by far more experienced sailors than I and by boatyard boatmasters that lazy jacks are the way to go. So, that’s why I’m adding them to the boom on my sloop.

[R.Broomhall]

I'm a career Sailmaker of 48 years experience. All systems if correctly set up are terrific! I have done sails for in mast furlers that have circumnavigated many times. I have done sails for furling booms that have done the same and made about a million boom bags. I emphasize it's about setting them up correctly. Every system will fail if badly set up or contains "make-do's!
Make your boat easy the fewer "strings", the fewer shackles the better off you will be and if your boat is nicely (easy) set up you will sail heaps more.
Every sailmaker I know shakes their head at the complicated way people leave their boats. Here's the news 1 correct knot is all that is needed in any circumstance 10 more DOESN"T make things more secure!
In-mast, In-boom or Boom Bag (Sail stacker) are all great but buy a good one and get professional advice to fit and set it up and LISTEN (take) to the advice given.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

My own experience has not been as nice as many above. I’ve done over 40k nm between Panama and Hobart.
In mast. In bad weather going to Fiji. 60+ knots of wind. Mainsail got damaged. Trying to furl, it got stuck in the slot. I ended up the mast for several hours getting it out. Had to wait for the wind to die down so we could get it off the mast boom. Dangerous, and and injuries while up the mast.

In boom. Done several voyages on catamarans with in boom. A nightmare every time getting the boom set up so the sail stacks in line with the boom. If the boom angle is even slightly off the exact angle the sail sits on the boom incorrectly and getting the sail up , and or just getting it on the roller is hell.

Stack it. So simple. So easy.

Bear in mind these production boats are really just caravans to park up at a marina. Not designed for real sailing.

Pete

I have found that the in boom system on my boat to be no problem at all if the angle is correct. The incredibly high tech system I have embraced is to establish the correct angle and once you have it to mark the topping lift with a marker pen where it leaves the clutch allowing the correct position and therefore angle to be replicated flawlessly every time.
Happy camper in my caravan.

[markpierce]

Being boomless, the choice was obvious.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Obvious troll is obvious. Of course they work well and for long periods with less maintenance than a stack pack and lazy lines.

Just look at the sheer amount of production boats that come with in mast furling as standard.

Sure they don’t give the best sail shape but usually this is compensated for by a slightly larger sail (taller mast) on boats that have been designed for it.

Sail shape is compromised, i guess thats one problem, on the other hand it makes reefing and sail stowing easier, if all works well.
If things dont go well you will have a problem.
For myself i chucked the ' state of the art' Selden in mast furler halve way on my round the world trip, back to no drama slab reefing.
Anyway, its anyones own preferances.