Keep it or ditch it?

[Snowpetrel]

All my boats have had a simple system with a 4:1 or 6:1 tackle to the traveller and it worked very well. Easy to reach from the helm, and a minimum of friction and line. But like all things it needs to be set up well with good blocks with built in cam cleats. A fine tune tackle can be used instead of a winch for hard windward work.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by stormalong

"Wasting" 26 feet of line is an interesting remark for a boat. The cost is less than a drop in the bucket of boat ownership. If the mast cannot handle the stress of that block at the gooseneck replace the mast.

I'm not concerned with cost, but 26 feet of rope is 26 feet in my cockpit on a close haul. Remember, with all the length and blocks, to let the boom out on a broad reach or run, I'd have to have maybe 50 feet or more of mainsheet in the cockpit when close hauled. That's NOT a good thing. Plus, the longer the main sheet the more likely it's going to kink and jam running out.

On my Cal 27, the main and jib sheets were always underfoot. So, minimizing line length is not a small consideration.

Also, as others have mentioned, the current configuration would be hard to single-hand. I did that a lot in my Cal 27. But that boat had a tiller not a wheel.

The Columbia is a cruiser, not a racer. But you still have to tack upwind. So, making the rig easier to manage would be a major consideration.

My goal is to try out the current setup and then experiment. Buying multipart blocks is not a cheap thing. Double and triple blocks are over $200 each. So, it's not a snap decision.

I appreciate all the suggestions. The trick is to have all the options and make the best decision based on facts and preference.

I like the convenience of a cam cleat over a static cleat, but this boat is much larger with more sail area than the Cal. I don't have any personal experience with that much sail on my own. On bigger boats, I always sailed with crew.

I'd rather not learn the hard way.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

My goal is to try out the current setup and then experiment. Buying multipart blocks is not a cheap thing. Double and triple blocks are over $200 each. So, it's not a snap decision.

Check our Garhauer they make good blocks for much less money than the name brand stuff.

For a triple blocks on the boom you need a double block with a becket and four single blocks.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Two blocks on the boom separated by some distance puts less stress on the boom and makes it less likely to break.

I studied the setup and the existing configuration puts two single blocks on the boom about 1 foot apart, and near the end of the boom. Since they are single blocks are we talking about a lot of stress?

I could replace the two singles with one double and put a quad at the bottom on the traveller with a cam cleat. That would give me more mechanical advantage and put less rope on the deck when we are close-hauled.

[Cheechako]

As previously mentioned, all that line and 90 degree turns creates friction. KISS works well and the lines run free . But the more friction free the blocks the more it helps in the current configuration.
But I'm also a big fan of "use it for a while then mod it".

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

As previously mentioned, all that line and 90 degree turns creates friction. KISS works well and the lines run free . But the more friction free the blocks the more it helps in the current configuration.
But I'm also a big fan of "use it for a while then mod it".

That's the plan, as I said earlier. You mentioned a dodger in a previous comment. Yes, it very much looks like it's designed for a dodger, but one does not exist yet. As a wanna be cruiser, I will be adding that as soon as all the other projects get addressed and I have the time and money.

However, if everything moves to the cockpit, I think the boat would be easier to single-hand. Obviously, I need to figure out the auto-helm situation. I have tiller and ST-1000 on my other boat. It works wonderfully. It will even tack the boat if needed.

[Terra Nova]

Sail for awhile with the system the boat came with. Gather some experience with this boat before deciding to change a bunch of stuff you barely know about. The existing system is very common and works well when the components are in good working order; the blocks must turn freely and the line must not be old, salt-soaked and stiff. Make sure the line is not too large for the blocks. You will certainly find times that the winch is needed.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I just bought a 1978 Columbia 10.7. I'm not happy with the mainsheet configuration.

The mainsheet uses a long complicated routing to the cabin top from the end of the boom using two blocks on the boom and one on the traveler that's positioned in the cockpit. The sheet then travels to the front of the boom down to the deck and then all the way back to the cockpit to winch and cleat, like this:



This configuration uses 5 blocks and a winch and a cleat. The distance from the last block to the front of the boom is around 13 feet.

The boat's statistics are:
I: 42.80'
J: 14.80'
P: 38.00'
E: 11.70'

and 222.30 ft2 sail area on the main.

The current set up requires a lot of rope to feed the beast but does not provide any benefit that I can see. Since the boat uses a wheel, it's impossible for the helmsman to adjust the main from that station.

With this info, does it make any sense to move the traveler or switch out the three single blocks for a more compact setup using two multi-block cam cleat and keep it all in the cockpit?

Something more like this:

Is it possible a previous owner was on in age and needed the reduction.

[Cheechako]

With the traveler on the bridge deck it may not interfere with the dodger, so that's a good thing. Personally I find it a bit messy there and on a cool night is a bit lumpy sitting for hiding behind the dodger under way, but every boat has compromises!

[Bigjim]

As I said earlier, there's no dodger yet. But I agree, it looks like it was designed specifically to accommodate a dodger.

My main concern is making the gear easier to single hand and eliminating wasteful use of rope for no benefit.

The current design is intended to use a winch for the mainsheet. What this means to me is that the current setup is NOT providing enough mechanical advantage using the blocks.

Is that a consideration? Would you prefer to use blocks providing more power? Or a winch?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Here is a better version of the mainsheet configuration:



Here's an actual photo. Yes, the current configuration would work for a dodger, although we don't have one yet.



The proposed design using the traveler and multipart blocks would also work. The traveler is well back of the cabin top.

Well, that's just about exactly what my boat has. The purpose of it is to make it easy to handle the mainsheet from the cockpit.

This configuration has two big drawbacks: (a) requires a very large amount of rope to make the mainsheet; (b) lots of friction.

However, it has some great advantages, very logical and clean lead of the sheet, all the purchase where it belongs, easy to handle the traveler.

Mine did not work very well the first years because the old polyester double braid mainsheet -- large 14mm -- was stiff and didn't run through the clutch very well. So sheeting out I would have to help the sheet come out of the end of the boom -- a real PITA. I solved this by replacing the mainsheet with one size smaller (12mm) dyneema, and the difference is magical. The smaller dyneema sheet is far lighter (like 1/3) and far more flexible, while being stronger. Lightness and flexibility means the friction in the system is no longer noticeable at all. I handle the mainsheet easily from the front of the cockpit on the port side, using the same electric winch which I use to operate the staysail sheet and vang. Only drawback is the huge length of rope (60 meters from memory) still makes quite a pile, albeit much smaller than the old mainsheet used to make.

After this revision, for me anyway, this is a good system. There is negligible strain on the gooseneck because at that point the mainsheet is pulling in triple purchase. YMMV, but you might try this. I bought the dyneema off fleabay as a reel end and it wasn't even that expensive. It is absolutely gorgeous to handle -- so light and extremely flexible.

[Bigjim]

Thanks for all the input. I revised the mainsheet to use a 75mm cam cleat fiddle block on the traveller. The original system used a very thick line and was hard to manage. The boom would not naturally move with the wind and in light winds we had to push the boom out. Using the winch in higher winds was putting a lot of stress on the gooseneck and other blocks. I believe it was very inefficient and a waste of line.

The new system is very fast and easy to manage. It uses a lot less rope and puts all the controls at arms reach. One person could easily handle the mainsheet and the jib if necessary. The only thing we have to test is how easily it handles high winds. The old system had a winch to lend a hand, but I doubt if we will have too much trouble.

I'll post some photos soon. My phone died yesterday before we went out for the race.

[Bigjim]

Here is the new mainsheet traveler system:



This is so much easier and faster than the old system. I can't see how anyone logical could have used the old one for 20+ years. Also, putting the mainsheet on the cabin top makes this a two-person boat. There's no way without an autopilot to work the main and jib sheets from the helm position.

[Bigjim]

Here's a composite image that compares the progression of changes I made in the traveller system. The new system works so much better and more efficiently.



Here is a wide angle of the main sheet system and traveller.