Ketch or Cutter Rig

[ozskipper]

Leaving all the usual arguments about sail handling and performance aside, here is something to consider

Ketch = 2 masts with 2x standing rigging-chain plates to maintain, 2 x running rigging etc etc. Therefore 2 x running costs ( or thereabouts)

on the plus side,
Ketch = having a spare mast if one fails.

A Ketch also gives you a mizzen to whack the radar onto without it being beaten by the leach of a sail.

I am sure the list goes on. My personal preference would be a cutter however. Only because I think they are prettier. But looks are subjective.

[Unicorn Dreams]

Running rigging on a ketch will be the same depending on whether it's a cutter rigged ketch or nor. 3-4 halyards, 3-4 sheets, so no real difference there.

Yes, more standing rigging. But shorter mast equal less strain on the rig.

Plus a ketch under full sail is a lot prettier under sail.

[CharlieCobra]

I like split rigs and currently own both a yawl and a ketch. The yawl is cutter rigged forward with a sprit (this was the only K-35 built this way) and offers the close air performance of a sloop or cutter and the heavy air ability of a ketch. I've had her in 60+ on her maiden voyage (for me) without issue. Hell, I didn't realize it was blowing so hard until we got turned by a wave and couldn't get back off the beam reach all sails up at 40 knots, because she flies offwind so well. The ketch? Neat little boat with less weather helm that tracks like a train in quartering seas. Slower but I'd take it anywhere.

[zeehag]

i have never sailed a tallship nor a schooner nor a yawl, but i have sailed sloop, ketch. cutter...i will definitely take the ketch over any of those single masted configurations for cruising.
for daysailing and playing with short hops, sloop or cutter would be fine-- but i LOVE my ketch in seas and winds. heck she doesnt get going until sloops and cutters yell "UNCLE"....
i watched as a ketch left us bashing away at 1 kt in gulf of mexico in a storm--it had only mizzen and jib up, and was smokin'----we were bashing and wet and mumbling under and over our breaths about how that ketch looked and left us in the sea spray......yes--ketch is IT in weather!!!!

[s/v Jedi]

no doubt in my mind: cutter-rigged ketch for short-handed cruising is the way to go for 50' or longer. The further below 50' you go, the less sense it makes to choose ketch over cutter. I think I might choose cutter for a 47' boat.

ciao!
Nick.

[Mexdon]

I would like to thank everyone for posting such good information. The yacht I am in current negotiations on is a cutter rigged ketch. It is gratifying to have the information I gleaned from my research on the internet has be ratified by experienced sailors. Next week or as soon as I know if my offer has been accepted I shall post the name of the yacht I am interested in and keep you informed of my progress through the purchase process.

As I am not experienced on ketch rigs I am sure I will have numerous more questions to ask in the future.

Once again thanks, I appreciate the time everyone has given to this post.

However don't let the discussion stop here. Maybe we could get more into depth on the various aspects of sail management under varying conditions. That would still be applicable on this forum?????

[zeehag]

mexdon--the proper terminology is forstaysail ketch. yes they rock. you have good plans for good boats. big wind, mizzen and forestaysail or foresail. you will know by the handling and action of the boat which sails to use. i believe both boats you have been looking at do have roller furling for both headsails, which is plus. benefits of two masts is not having to use main sail if you dont want to. both boats will sail just fine with mizzen and foresail and or forestaysail. benefit of forestaysail with mizzenand foresail is downwind boat speed. pole both headsails out and use mizzen for balance and you have best of all worlds as the main is not in use and wont shadow the headsails. fly baby fly!!!!

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by zeehag

mexdon--the proper terminology is forstaysail ketch.

Zee, thanks, I had figured that out from my research but the term cutter Ketch was used a couple of times in this thread so I stuck with it.

Thanks for the hint on downwind sailing.

I had some experience years ago on a schooner....but that does not equate to anything like a ketch I am told.

[Capt.Fred]

[QUOTE=boatman61;808887]Or.... you could go the whole hog and have a cutter rigged ketch....
For 25 years, I sailed a 50' cutter yawl and would have it no other way. The combinations are numerous, but the three best features were, when sailing in tight quarters, I could do figure 8's manouvering with the mizzen. To really move out I would unfurl the yankee. With the yankee furled all sails were self tending. Now with the present boat I'm in love with, I converted this trailerable Rob Roy 23 to the same 4 sail rig, other modifications and am zipping along singlehanded as usual. I sold my 50' Daedalus in 2002 and she can be seen on Google "Sail the Daedalus" I have no financial interest in this, I just want the gang to see the beautiful boat I designed and built alone with my lady...And launched in 1977.

[Nicholson58]

O'Rilley,

I agree about the tacking with a cutter stay. Ours is a real pain. When concitions allow, we gibe around and let the clew pass the cutter stay. Recently, we added 'muscle on deck' in the form of a Milwaukee right angle 1/2 inch 28 VDC battery powered drill. Find one on E-Bay as factory rebuilt for about 60% of new. Buy (or make) an adapter to drive a winch on the roller-furler. We pull the jib in 50% to tack. Even in pretty stiff wind there is lots of torque. The tool also will haul crew up the mast with little effort. Fringe bennefit - there is always a drill on board. Be sure to operate only clockwise in the winch so the chuck doesn't unscrew. If your boat is 24 volts you may be able to make a power cord adapter.

[Hudson Force]

I have a ketch and I'm pleased, but with a fresh start, I would not hesitate to choose the cutter. My advantage with the ketch is my ability to have access to more hurricane holes under fixed bridges. Performance and ease of handling is an issue, but vertical clearance may be a consideration too.

[Curmudgeon]

Having sailed both, I would choose neither. The best rig IMHO is a sloop with a solent rig (self tacking jib on a furler with a big light air sail on a furler just ahead of the jib) with a removable inner forestay to hank on a storm jib in really bad conditions.

The sloop points better and requires less work to tack. Having said that, if someone offered me a Cherubini 44 ketch I would not refuse.

[markpierce]

My cutter (Bluewater/Blackwatch) had a "flying jib" (slightly overlapping the inner jib) which was no bother at all to tack with. The inner club jib had a boom, so there was no effort tacking with that sail.

[Capt Phil]

My vote for shorthanded 50 ft or longer would be a cutter rigged ketch. My last sailboat was a Transpac 49 with this rig and it served me/us well for several 1000 miles offshore. Just the ease of smaller sail area to be handled made it a lot easier in a blow and it was easy to avoid the 'lazy' overcanvassing syndrome. You do give up some sailing efficiency closehauled but I personally think it is a good trade off. Capt Phil

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by markpierce

My cutter (Bluewater/Blackwatch) had a "flying jib" (slightly overlapping the inner jib) which was no bother at all to tack with. The inner club jib had a boom, so there was no effort tacking with that sail.

Not sure what you mean by a flying jib Mark. Can you explain? Do you not have to slide the fore-jib (yankee) through the slot between the fore and inner stay when tacking?

On our cutter (Rafiki 37) tacking is quite easy with decent winds, but as soon as it drops below say 8 knots the yankee sometimes gets hung up in the slot. It's on a furler, so sometimes we furl the yankee in part way (thanks for the tip Nicholson58 ), before the tack, but we do lose a lot of speed doing this. The staysail is self-tacking.