Large Cat - Mainsail Battens

[nfbr]

My battens drive me nuts. Getting the mainsail up, 70% of the problems are battens snagging reef lines, topping lift or lazy jacks.
Battens rubbing on shrouds etc.

Assume we have tried most solutions.

What's the negative impact of a battenless sail on a bigger boat?

we would hoist / use the sail at least twice as often if the battens were not there.

Note - Harken roller cars. Not sure how they would go without battens.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by nfbr

My battens drive me nuts. Getting the mainsail up, 70% of the problems are battens snagging reef lines, topping lift or lazy jacks.
Battens rubbing on shrouds etc.

Assume we have tried most solutions.

What's the negative impact of a battenless sail on a bigger boat?

we would hoist / use the sail at least twice as often if the battens were not there.

Note - Harken roller cars. Not sure how they would go without battens.

Battens are essential on most large catamaran mainsails. Most of these sails have large roach areas and the battens support that roach. Without battens the sail will flop uselessly. You could have a sailmaker cut off the roach so that battens are not required but you would lose most of the power of the sail.

The thing you have to do is be careful when hoisting or dropping the sail and make sure that you are exactly into the wind so that the sail and battens go between all the stuff you have hanging around it AND you have to watch it and when a snag does occur you have to drop the main until it clears itself.

As for rubbing on the shrouds you can pull the mainsail in until it no longer rubs or just put up with it.

Harken batcars will make hoisting easier but it won't have any effect on the batten issues you are faced with.

I would not recommend taking out the battens.

[ItDepends]

As wingsail has suggested, you NEED the battens in your existing sail. Simply removing them is not an option.

It is possible to have the sail recut to remove the roach, but this would very seriously compromise the performance of your boat.

Catamarans and monohulls sail with full batten mainsails all the time. I suggest you either have an experienced sailmaker sail with you and help sort out the issues, or go sailing yourself on other boats similar to yours and see how to make this work.

This isn't rocket science. It can be made to work. You just have to learn how. Details matter both in setup and technique. Your boat has been sailing for 20 years with this type of sail. It CAN work.

[dcondit]

I created a system (ripped off the idea form others) that allows me to relax the lazy jacks as I raise the sail. That, combined with lots of slack on the topping lift, solves most of the problems. To ensure dead upwind, I set my autopilot on 0 apparent wind as I slowly motor. As for rubbing on the shroud occasionally -- meh -- cost of doing business.

[singlespeed]

I solved a lot of those same problems by mounting a rigid spring loaded vang. I didn't eliminate the topping lift, but pulled it next to the mast as an emergency halyard. You can move the lazy jacks forward to about one third of the boom length from the mast when hoisting the main sail and the sail will stay in the bag and the batten ends will be less likely to snag them.

[psk125]

We have a rigid vang, so getting rid of the boom topping lift was a quick decision to make. As mentioned, Lazyjacks can be shifted forward to alongside the mast after the sail's been dropped.

[nfbr]

To be honest, it’s the reef lines more often that wrap behind / between the battens.

[Tupaia]

You need to have the main made with closed batten pockets. The battens are fed in and adjusted from the luff. This leaves nothing to snag on the leach.

If it is your lazy jacks that are causing hook ups then make sure the top pulleys are attached to the spreaders, about half way along, instead of the mast.
I personally prefer Teflon slides in my batten cars rather than balls. Long term or even on long ocean passages the balls become clogged with salt and can jam or loose the balls altogether.

[dcondit]

For reefing lines on a large cat I always do a little reefing line preventative maintenance after I’ve had to reef. Once the sail is down after reefing, I go to the end of the boom and pull some slack in the lines and arrange them such that they won’t tangle on next hoist. It takes only a couple minutes, and I’m usually up there anyway to secure the main so it won’t inadvertently come part way out as the wind changes.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by nfbr

My battens drive me nuts. Getting the mainsail up, 70% of the problems are battens snagging reef lines, topping lift or lazy jacks.
Battens rubbing on shrouds etc.

Assume we have tried most solutions.

What's the negative impact of a battenless sail on a bigger boat?

we would hoist / use the sail at least twice as often if the battens were not there.

Note - Harken roller cars. Not sure how they would go without battens.

It is all technique. Please keep the battens.

• Hoist slightly to one side of head to wind. The topping lift will blow to one side.
• The lazy jacks may extend too far aft. With full battens they should be only about 65% aft; the farthest aft location is not needed with full battens. Additionally, the simpler the system the better. You may also consider hauling the LJs forward, behind the mast, while hoisting. I sometimes do that when single handing in strong winds to keep things simpler.
• Shrouds. First this will happen with a battenless sail too. There should be chafe guards on the battens. Second, you should not be sailing with the main hard out on the battens. Keep some tension on the main sheet and don't let it twist off crazy. Get some leach telltales and keep them just flowing. Reach. Even DDW, there is no need to let the main way out. If sailing wing-and-wing on a cat, it will be faster if you keep the main in some, so that the flow goes off it and into the hauled-out genoa (you do have an out-down tweak I hope).

I would certainly never want a battenless main on a cat. It would be slow, it will change the balance (possible lee helm), and I wouldn't want to have to explain the reason.

[s/v Jedi]

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